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B&C SUB18 Driver Choice to compete with 4 scoops
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dario-p View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 February 2026 at 3:41pm
Hello all.

I'm looking to build 6x of the B&C SUB18 reflex cabinet. I built 2 loaded with the TBX100 and was very impressed with the sound and LF extension. I like the versatility and ease of setup/build of reflex. 

I'm now taking soundsystem a bit more seriously and am building a proper stack, mainly playing reggae/dub. I would like the ability to meet and compete with a 4 scoop sound. 
So basically I have to decide on what driver to pick, I see 3 options:

- Stick with the 18TBX100 (cheap, and designed for the box)
- 18SW115 (more expensive, better power handling but lower efficiency than TBX)
- 18DS115 (more expensive, ND driver so lighter, silly 16mm Xmax, crazy power handling, same efficiency as TBX so theoretically crazy SPL)

Thought I'd cast this question onto the forum because I am unsure if its worth paying nearly 2x the price for the more expensive drivers. Again I would like to compete with a 4x well designed scoops. (Will be powering from a Admark AD442 off a 2x16A distro).

How does EBP play into this? the TBX100 has and EBP of 91 which seems like the 'sweet spot' for reflex, but the DS115 is 143. As I understand the latter is used a lot in horn designs.

Would appreciate any wisdom.

P.S on the subject of Distros, what do people think about the Penn Elcom 32A distros with the 2x16A circuits? I would really like to have a power monitor because I am a massive nerd.

Cheers,
Dario
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jammin75 View Drop Down
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Points: 2475 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammin75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2026 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by dario-p dario-p wrote:





I would like the ability to meet and compete with a 4 scoop sound. 



Cheers,
Dario

at least 12 of them Confused  6 will never keep up with a 4 scoop sound unless 2 scoops are unloaded LOL even then i think the scoops wud still edge it Big smile


Edited by jammin75 - 28 February 2026 at 4:14pm
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I wouldnt put too much weight on free air efficiency as it will change when its loaded into a cabinet, drivers with lower Fs will have lower free air efficiency but might work better in the cabinet.   I did a direct A/B between the 18DS115 and 18SW115 in a 135L reflex, the DS was tight and hard sounding, quite brutal and aggressive whereas the sw115 was smoother and rounder, a little boomy but still quite articulate.  
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DMorison View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

I did a direct A/B between the 18DS115 and 18SW115 in a 135L reflex, the DS was tight and hard sounding, quite brutal and aggressive whereas the sw115 was smoother and rounder, a little boomy but still quite articulate.  

FWIW, I've seen one or two other posts about these types of newer, very high BL drivers that have similar descriptions of the sound.

Can you remember what your test box was tuned to when you did the comparison by any chance please?

Did you go as far as EQ'ing them to have the same frequency response then re-listen to check if that made a difference to the perceived sound?

Thanks,
David.
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Assuming reflex cabs, perfectly optimised for intended drivers, and sub amps, truthfully capable of providing required power down to 38hz, you would need 4x 3000w 2x18 reflex cabs, and double the mains current, to match the SPL of 4x 1500W 1x18" Scoops, which are optimally loaded and tuned.

The reflex would provide flatter response, smoother, easier to tune, but not have the same impact beyond 15M.

Seen this in gigs, many many times, not theory based on graphs and Simms, real life gigs.

The 4x Scoop system could easily be powered from a 2x13A mains socket, not so for the reflex. 

For almost 10x years, at annual Jamaica Independence event, myself  and mate, provided 8x Scoop system, that easily covered 5000 people in huge, high ceiling venue, powered by 2x Void Inf8 mk2s, off 2x sets of double 13A sockets, as that was what was available.

At 0400hrs every event, noise authorities would turn up, dictating sub could be heard over a mile away, and had to be lowered.


Edited by levyte357- - 01 March 2026 at 8:44am
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Timebomb View Drop Down
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It was the Orbit 18 tuned to 37Hz,  i did eq them to give roughly the same response but it was indoors so not super accurate.  The faital 18xl2000 was the best all round imo, they are expensive.  I was not that keen on the ds115, its a stronger motor, aluminium coil, just a bit hard sounding, not really what i wanted, would be good in a horn i recon. 

Im using the Celestion power pro x18 now which is similar to the tbx100, can sell them at a good price if anyone wants some as i will be moving over to some custom built neos with 5" coils.   
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Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Assuming reflex cabs, perfectly optimised for intended drivers, and sub amps, truthfully capable of providing required power down to 38hz, you would need 4x 3000w 2x18 reflex cabs, and double the mains current, to match the SPL of 4x 1500W 1x18" Scoops, which are optimally loaded and tuned.

The reflex would provide flatter response, smoother, easier to tune, but not have the same impact beyond 15M.

Seen this in gigs, many many times, not theory based on graphs and Simms, real life gigs.

The 4x Scoop system could easily be powered from a 2x13A mains socket, not so for the reflex. 

For almost 10x years, at annual Jamaica Independence event, myself  and mate, provided 8x Scoop system, that easily covered 5000 people in huge, high ceiling venue, powered by 2x Void Inf8 mk2s, off 2x sets of double 13A sockets, as that was what was available.

At 0400hrs every event, noise authorities would turn up, dictating sub could be heard over a mile away, and had to be lowered.

Yeah 4 single 18 reflex cabs wont be as efficient as 4 scoops and will need more power to get the same spl, but 4 2x18 reflex cabs should get close, and the cabs would still be smaller than the 4 scoops.  Having twice as many drivers double's the radiating area and doubles the efficiency, and if you put the same power into 8 drivers compared to 4 then the coils dont get as hot, lower RE, better motor strength as there cool.  More drivers is better for spl and output vs size , but more expensive and they dont sound the same as a stack of scoops or FLH.  
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billso View Drop Down
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We used to regularly do an event with one system using 3 Superscoops loaded with Colossus 1000 Drivers being powered by one EV P3000 giving each driver a theoretical  600W and one system using 6 Sub18s loaded with Fane XBs and powered with 3 channels of crest 8001 Also giving 600w a driver. Before the first event I was fairly convinced they would be a fair match but the reality was the 6 reflex boxes could not even get close to keeping up with the 3 scoops. In the end we had to connect both systems together as every time the reflex sound came in it was just embarrassing. I love the sub18s and think they are a great box but I am not convinced that even if he had 9 of them he would have matched the output of 3 Superscoops.
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^ true u need plenty of reflex to play with scoops first event we did was with reflex nice lows flapped trousers in front of stack but not enuff spl switched to scoops Nuke
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you have to remember that if a horn is efficient enough that it is radiating an average of 25% of the input power as sound then only 75% of the power is going toward voice coil heating. With a reflex box it is about 97% heating. Loading effectively increases the power rating of the driver.
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Would not stick with the TBX , its nice sounding sure but it heats up easily and if you like to push it at one moment you will smell it .
Maybe the sw115 but i would also look at the 18ds100 a bit more loose brother of the ds115 which i wouldnt personally use in reflex.
So in short if youre gonna stack loads and loads of boxes and be careful the TBX will work, if you want to compete and push the sound to its limits you need the big boys .
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Thank you all for the replies. 

The thing that makes me think its possible is the RC1 active Dwarf Sub. I was just at sound check in bristol and 2 of those things sounded as fat as the full 4 scoop sounds in the other rooms. 

I've been measuring in hornresp and the TBX100 definitely gives the flattest response. SW115 shows a +1db boost at the tuning frequency which is very promising, with a steeper rolloff as you go higher, but its not too dramatic, pair this with its enourmous power handling and it makes it very appealing, the TBX would definitely melt in order to keep up with it. The DS115 shows a massive peak +3-4db boost at the tuning frequency, with a very steep rolloff as you go up, making it look like a "one note wonder". This seems fairly consistent with what Timebomb said. 

Currently feeling very tempted by the SW115. Am thinking about buying one and building a box out of mdf to test a couple different port lengths. 
- loud box enjoyer
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