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Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested

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Silesia-Art View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silesia-Art Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2013 at 8:26pm
Somebody asked about D4-500 - it's bad amp!

Bad sound (too much high frequences and not enough mid-low) and bad power (similar to class AB 2x200w@4ohm but in bass freq. similar to 2x100w@4ohm...)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reticuli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:00pm
Very simple (I hope) question I have...
 
So what is the real-world peak output of the Behringer?  I realize that might not be a spec that the reviewer here is comfortable necessarily using, but it's one a lot of speaker and sub specs have.  I'm thinking in terms of matching amp to speaker capabilities, or vice versa, and also in terms of voltage limiting to prevent driver damage assuming proper filter and crossover settings are used. 
 
If that's a tough spec to actually quantify for some reason, what's the lowest power handling rating for a properly-rated speaker you would drive each channel of this with to full power, and what's the highest power handling rating speaker you'd want to pair these with but still get the most (in your opinion) out of the speaker?
 


Edited by Reticuli - 05 October 2013 at 11:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reticuli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2013 at 7:46pm
And is 3.3 ohms when bridging a nu3000 or using the nu6000 a definite way to kick the amp into self protect?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Reticuli Reticuli wrote:

Very simple (I hope) question I have...
 
So what is the real-world peak output of the Behringer?  I realize that might not be a spec that the reviewer here is comfortable necessarily using, but it's one a lot of speaker and sub specs have.  I'm thinking in terms of matching amp to speaker capabilities, or vice versa, and also in terms of voltage limiting to prevent driver damage assuming proper filter and crossover settings are used. 
 
If that's a tough spec to actually quantify for some reason, what's the lowest power handling rating for a properly-rated speaker you would drive each channel of this with to full power, and what's the highest power handling rating speaker you'd want to pair these with but still get the most (in your opinion) out of the speaker?
 

Do you mean peak in the sense of peak voltage or do you mean peak in the sense of power for short bursts like in a music signal? As per my report the music-like output ratings are:
1.37kW into 8 Ohms, 2.05kW into 4 Ohms for full-range or mid-top duty
1.16kW into 8 Ohms, 1.80kW into 4 Ohms for Bass duty

If you wanted peak figures in a "peak voltage" sense then you can double these power figures or convert it to voltage. Peak voltage for full range is 148V/8 Ohms or 128V/4 Ohms, and for bass duties 136V/8 Ohms and 120V/4 Ohms.

In terms of matching an amp to a speaker then I believe conventional wisdom is to have the amplifier rms power equal to double the continuous rms rating of the loudspeaker, or equal to the "Programme power" rating of the speaker. Provided you don't abuse the amplifier (lots of clipping) or use an LMS with the limiters set appropriately then this approach is considered OK. Speakers are damaged through the long-term average input power being too high (overheating) or for mechanical reasons (inappropriate high-pass filter settings or none at all). 

Having an amp capable of double the thermal rating of a loudspeaker sounds dangerous but when you consider the "crest factor" of music it makes perfect sense. You actually need a significantly higher power amp to be able to deliver anything near the thermal ability of the speaker. That gives you extra headroom also allowing a very clean sound even at high levels. Even the most heavily compressed music will have a crest factor of 6dB or more, meaning the average power will be one quarter of the power during the musical peaks, hence, provided you are not clipping, your 2kW amp will deliver an average power of no more than 500W...
I hope my explanation makes sense Smile

Of course if you further compress the music, or drive any stage of your signal chain into distortion (which decreases crest factor) then the safety margin gets eroded and eventually you will burn out the speaker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 11:12am
Originally posted by Reticuli Reticuli wrote:

And is 3.3 ohms when bridging a nu3000 or using the nu6000 a definite way to kick the amp into self protect?

Not sure on the nu3000 but it was possible to make the nu6000 shut down when driving two 4 Ohm loads very hard. I'm hoping they've rectified this issue by bringing in the limiter before the power supply locks out, after all you want the show to continue and not lose sound mid-gig!
I think I read that the nu3000 does this correctly, making sure the limiter acts first, so you may get away with 3.3 Ohms on that but I'd be hesitant with the 6000.
Only one way to find out of course Smile I don't think you will damage anything trying...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Chase McKnight Chase McKnight wrote:

Dear All,

Here is Mr. Behringer's response on Sound Forums regarding NU6000 issues-
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/1616-behringer-inuke-nu6000-amplifier-4.html#post51896

"We have since investigated the problem and found the root cause to be a defective diode in the power supply. We received a defective batch of MBRS1100 Schottky diodes made by International Rectifier (IR) which is one of the largest, US-listed semicon companies.

This particular diode was used in the first amp deliveries and we have since reworked all inventory to make sure new shipments are perfectly fine. We will certainly rework all products in the field to make sure you have a great customer experience.

Unfortunately, these things happen - even with parts from most reputable suppliers such as IR. 

No matter what, we will get this right.

The iNuke amps are some of our most successful products and have proven to be very reliable. We have heavily invested in the design of this technology and are about to release a new 12,000 Watt version.

Like all our products, they are covered by our 3-Year Warranty program.

Warm regards

Uli"

Don't hesitate to contact MUSIC Group at (702) 800-8290 or email care@music-group.com for technical support, parts, or warranty issues! 


Kind regards,

Chase McKnight
Jr. Admin, Tech Support
MUSIC Group



As I reported in another thread the amplifier I used for the test suffered from this exact failure, confirming its credibility somewhat. Said amp was replaced without question and its replacement is still going strong. I'm still of the opinion this is a good value amp and its a shame such an issue spoiled the party.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amplitude-audio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 12:09pm
One of mine drives a drum-fill more than most drummers care for with headroom to spare. The dynamic EQ is great for taming high mids that get aggressive at high levels.

Even if it weren't capable of it's claimed output, it's great value for what it does do.

Seems the 12000 is a step closer to becoming a reality than I'd imagined it could be...

http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-iNUKE-Power-Amp/PP2?origin=product-ads&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PLA+Behringer&utm_content=HgcsCyop|dc_pcrid_32201669359_plid__kword__match__


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reticuli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2013 at 12:32am
They're Lab Subs.  If the amps start going into protect trying to run them with the Lab 12's wired in parallel, do you think it would be worth it to easily rewire them in a series instead internally?  I thought they were actually biamp-wired to the NL4 male port on the back of the subs, but they are not.  So biamping with a 4 conductor cable would require some major rewiring/regluing inside.  Parallel to series would be pretty easy, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jesso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2013 at 1:33pm
The Kam is bridgeable right?
I currently have an inuke 6000.  I use it only to run one dynacord dlite sub 115.
It's not as loud or as deep sounding as the internal dynacord amp on my other sub (the matching power sub 115) which is 1000 dynacord watts bridged into the 15 inch sub. 
I'm wondering would the Kam do a better job than the inuke if I bridged it.....
Any thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2013 at 2:18pm
I don't expect the KAM to do any better. The reason the dynacord sounds better is likely due to the fact it will have EQ and high-pass filtering built in, intended to improve the subs performance.
Try a known-good sounding external amp instead to confirm this point if you can but the inuke 6000 is a good bass amp and has around 1000 "real watts" into an 8 Ohm load per channel.

Bridging an amp always increases the stress on it so its unlikely to sound better unless you really do need more power (unlikely).

If the dynacord has EQ and filtering built in then you could mimic that with an external speaker management system (e.g. ultradrive etc.) or use an inuke 6000 DSP unit and set the filters accordingly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simonp1100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2013 at 6:17pm
Did Behringer have any problems on the power supply PCB with the viper start up ????.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2013 at 6:39pm
In the unit I had the failed diode was in the low-power part of the supply, driven by the Viper IC. The Viper IC itself seemed OK but was overheating and protecting itself due to the diode failure.

No issues with the amp starting up when the diode was OK.
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