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Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested

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teslaman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2012 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by audiomik audiomik wrote:

Firstly your current probe may struggle with it's bandwidth limit to really see what's happening to the current output with an Inductive component in the load.

Do you have a differential input Analog 'scope with a 'third' input such as simultaneous trig view or better still 4 Channel?
If so, then use the differential input to look at the current by using a low value non-inductive power resistor (a number of 2 Watt metal film type in parallel for approx 0.1R) and the third/fourth inputs to look at the Amplifier Output Voltage and act as a sync source.

Your 0.65mH should be fine, try 2kHz input signal to start with when you have 4 Ohms resistive in series.... it still gets nearer than purely resistive to simulate a 'real driver'. You won't need high output levels to see what's happening and an FFT/Spectral analysis of the Current waveform at different Amplifier Output Voltages if you can do that will be interesting
 

Hi Mik, Yes you're right, the current probe is fine for basic AC input current analysis but won't show the harmonics of the typical amp/smps switching frequencies. My scope is 4 channel so i'll definitely be having a go at the inductive load testing to see what's going on.
The scope also does FFT but doesn't have any low-pass filtering so any signals above the Nyquist point (which is timebase dependant) get aliased down into the spectrum and can give false readings. I'll have a look at it though as it could be interesting.

Originally posted by vibez vibez wrote:

Having read this thread yesterday i decided to try my inuke (that usually run monitors ) on sub just for the fun ofit. I must confess that i was quite suprised by the result. i hung two 1850 loaded scoops off each channel and this little budget amp spanked them pretty well. I must admit that i wouldn't feel absolutely comfortable using this on sub long term but for emergency situations i wouldn't hesitate to use this to get me out of trouble. The only thing i did notice was that when it hit clip level the limiting was very audible but once limiter on dcx was set to prevent this it sounded pretty good and certainly delivered more bang per buck than i have ever heard from an amp in this price range. Haven't tried the dsp yet but will have a play at the weekend when i have more time.

Top review and suprisingly good budget amp

Was that an NU6000 DSP then? If so then I'm not surprised it sounded OK. To really give people confidence it needs someone like yourself to actually run it at a gig and spank it into 4 Ohms for a few hours, that's something I can't do. I think it will be a cool running and reliable amp so as long as it sounds good too then we have a winner!

Originally posted by MessyM2k8 MessyM2k8 wrote:

Nice report. 
Out of interest, what test gear are you using?

The audio performance side is done with an Audio Precision "Portable One Plus" which is interfaced to a computer with GPIB. A custom Visual Basic script then runs in excel to allow me to make graphs etc. The Portable One Plus was never intended as an R&D instrument really so its difficult to get data off of it but this little set-up works really well and the analogue performance of the AP is outstanding.
Power metering is courtesy of a Hameg NM8115-2 Programmable Power Meter.
Burst signals were generated on the computer using the MTPM signal generator program, which is brill!
Scope is a Tektronix TDS2024B 4-channel 200MHz

Originally posted by VentureSound VentureSound wrote:

Teslaman, thanks for all your tests, it was a very interesting read indeed.  I would be keen to see some similar results on a Peavey IPR series, as I guess they are somewhat comparable being class D, 'new generation' and cheap. 
I've heard an IPR on subs and was suprised as well, sounded pretty good to me! Cannot remember the model, but it was one of the lower ones like 1-2KW. 

Yes the Peavey class-D's would be more than welcome to visit the bench. I suspect they are the same chip-set as the Behringer but different layouts etc. can make big differences to how things sound. As someone mentioned in this thread Abletronics has already tested the 1600 so you can see the results of that here http://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=peavey_IPR-1600

Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Id be interested to read that if you've got a link BitSmasher?

I would be very keen to see measurements of the Peavey IPR and the Crest Prolite,  it seems only the smaller 2 models are available though, the larger ones have been forthcoming for several years now, and in the UK we haven't even got the IPR3000 yet i dont think.  They are defiantly on the short list for budget lightweights though.

I'd be very interested in a link to that comparison too please BitSmasher!

If someone has an IPR3000 or Crest Prolite they want testing then drop me a PM.

Cheers,
Dave.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2012 at 6:20pm
It looks as if the overall conclusion is that the Behringer works pretty well -- it's obviously designed down to a minimum price, but unlike the KAM there don't seem to be any major design weaknesses (e.g. internal temperatures) other than the lack of PFC (in other words, just like most other amps on the market).

Several reasonable-quality kilowatts for £270 and a few kilograms seems a bargain to me...

If you drive continuous sinewaves (not music) into 4 ohm loads on both channels then it'll shut down, so don't do that :-)

If you want to drive paralleled 2 ohms loads to destruction buy several and put them in a rack and don't parallel the speakers up (make up some 8-core leads?), they'll still weigh next to nothing. 4 NU6000 will drive 8 8ohm subs with 1.2kW sinewave each continuously if you want and cost about a grand for 10kW rms, I can't think of anything else close to this.

P.S. The KAM looks the standard Kobble Chinese class-D amp that been around for years under various names (Synq, DAS, Thomann...) which has a reputation for being monumentally unreliable -- and it's more than double the price of the NU6000.






Edited by IanD - 29 July 2012 at 6:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuivenion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2012 at 1:20pm
Was having a read of the specs and didn't see the amps input sensitivity anywhere in the manual. Anyone know what it is? 
help!!!!!!!!!!
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teslaman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2012 at 2:07pm
Gain is 42dB with controls at maximum and therefore for full power you need an input of 0.82V rms for full power into 8 Ohms or 0.71V rms for full power into 4 Ohms assuming music conditions.

These figures also tally with my measurements for output power vs input voltage (which I didn't publish as there not really of interest!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amplitude-audio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2012 at 11:03am
Hell of a bench test!

Has anybody run any mid-tops off the berry yet. If so how do they sound. I'm sure there will be perceivable differences between this and one of the big boys amps but I mean are they acceptable enough?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2012 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Amplitude-audio Amplitude-audio wrote:

Hell of a bench test!

Has anybody run any mid-tops off the berry yet. If so how do they sound. I'm sure there will be perceivable differences between this and one of the big boys amps but I mean are they acceptable enough?


What would you except from International rectifier IRS20xx free-oscillating driver without *real* output feedback?
It s less than a car stereo quality! Some mid and high speakers are harsh while another sounds like voice of singer got flu :-)
Barely suitable for any of professional works for sure...

Edited by U.Viktor - 03 September 2012 at 12:51pm
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teslaman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teslaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2012 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Originally posted by Amplitude-audio Amplitude-audio wrote:

Hell of a bench test!

Has anybody run any mid-tops off the berry yet. If so how do they sound. I'm sure there will be perceivable differences between this and one of the big boys amps but I mean are they acceptable enough?


What would you except from International rectifier IRS20xx free-oscillating driver without *real* output feedback?
It s less than a car stereo quality! Some mid and high speakers are harsh while another sounds like voice of singer got flu :-)
Barely suitable for any of professional works for sure...

It sounds fine to my ears, not as smooth and seductive as the best class-AB amps but certainly not harsh, better than you would expect for its power and price.

U.Viktor, have you even listened to an NU6000 amplifier? I gather from your posts that you have a certain preference for PKN and little else is any good for you. There is room in the universe for half decent budget amps for those of us who can't afford the likes of PKN etc.

My advice is go listen to one for yourself, just like with any product, and make up your own mind.

Maybe someone would like to offer a PKN amplifier for the test bench! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2012 at 2:34pm
I was invited to see (partly) an in-house test of a pair NU3000 and NU6000 when they become available in Austrian retailer not long time ago. My fiends has quite high level of electronic expertise so I believe everything what they measured/told me and showed me on oscilloscopes and analyizers. These amps was also completely disassembled therefore their circuitry have been understood too.
We did listening on NEXO PS15 as well as middle sized studio monitor boxes. Of course a good quality AB-class analog amplifier is the best for mid/high range however Crown I-Tech (internal DSP bypassed!) and PKN XD/XE series are also very good. The problem is that difficult to get a good and affordable AB class analog amplifier with power level required today and usually these analog amps have really no proper regulated(PFC) power supply...
What I wanted to say is that the iNUKE has a type of circuitry which is not really adequate as serious professional equipment. i do not say that would not sound nicely on your boxes however maybe will not be perfect on MOST type of the boxes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amplitude-audio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2012 at 3:43pm
Hi Teslaman,
you've experience of running mid-tops with this amp? If so, how were the speakers rated?

For what it's worth, in the setting I'm thinking of using them neither amp nor speaker will be working hard. Even if it's specs have been fluffed up a little the berry seems cheaper and lighter than other amps that'd do the trick.

As informed as I'm sure everyones tech info is I'm more interested in the views of people who've given them real world testing in this instance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2012 at 9:05pm
Hi everyone,
It was a pleasure to read such nice technical info :) Thank you!

We've been using a pair of iNUKE 6000 (no DSP) by our small company here in Poland. We used very differently: with double 18" Kilomax reflex boxes, single PD1850 BP6th boxes, wedge Ohm monitors, JBL JRX 125, Yamaha S 215 IV and a couple of others for the last 6 months or so.
Every time the amps technically did a good job. The sound was not as nice as from Crown xls 602 (older model) or Crest CPX 1500 or even lightweight Crown xti 1000. The difference was audible, but not in a way we could describe what's really wrong with the sound... So that wasn't a big difference.

Now one of the amps is broken, doesn't start or flash any lights. It did not work with 2 Ohm impedance even once. Maybe it was broken during transportation to a gig, because the amps were traveling loose outside the rack. No visible damage, maybe just because of vibration something got loose. We will see what the warranty claim ends with ;)

John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ultimate_fish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2012 at 8:38am
Hi Teslaman,

I wondered if you might be interested in doing some tests on the Thomann d4-500.

Not a massively powerful amp, but very useful for monitors in the weekend warrior market because it offers four channels of 250w in a 1u package.

Got one I could send you in the new year. It would be interesting to know how it performs on the bench.

I've also got a tsa-4700 which is a heavier, more powerful offering with a class h amp and smps.

Let me know if you have the time/inclination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbinks-v2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2012 at 10:30am
Originally posted by ultimate_fish ultimate_fish wrote:

Hi Teslaman,

I wondered if you might be interested in doing some tests on the Thomann d4-500.

Not a massively powerful amp, but very useful for monitors in the weekend warrior market because it offers four channels of 250w in a 1u package.

Got one I could send you in the new year. It would be interesting to know how it performs on the bench.

I've also got a tsa-4700 which is a heavier, more powerful offering with a class h amp and smps.

Let me know if you have the time/inclination.

+1

I'd also be interested in knowing how the d4-500 performs. I have been eyeing them up as suitable compact monitor amps and backups for the more meaty amps.
Potential for great value for money!

Cheers,
John

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