Benefits of V loading drivers in subs? |
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Noyzmunky
Young Croc Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1260 |
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Posted: 02 April 2020 at 10:58am |
hey guys, what, if anything but for size, is the benefit of fitting drivers in a V formation in a sub?
Ala Mach M218R or Shermann CB218 It looks cool, it looks like it will squeeze the air and force it harder... Does it? Lower extension? What gives? cheers |
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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.
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Chris Grimshaw
Registered User Joined: 10 September 2018 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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You can use Hornresp to simulate this. The short story is that a large enough V will give a bit of boost at the upper end of the passband. The example picture might give a bit of boost in the 2-400Hz range - not really useful for a subwoofer. IMO, best bet is to flip the drivers around and run magnet-out. The ported chamber gets larger (bit more low bass), and the drivers will stay cooler under high-power use. Win-win. Chris
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Quality sound from Sheffield
www.grimshawaudio.com |
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Phil B
Old Croc Joined: 21 November 2004 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2328 |
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The designer of the Noise Control VSB218s ( Reay) told me he wasn't interested in any horn loading etc, it was more that the V baffle makes the box stronger and you can separate the chambers easily if that's what you want to ??
I kinda agree ! .p. |
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smitske96
Young Croc Joined: 16 February 2016 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1092 |
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The designs that were shared previously, obviously don't save space. You even need bigger dimensions if you want to keep the same rear chamber volume. Depending on the cavity you wille get some extra gain but mostly >90 Hz. If you go for designs like the SB1000 or the newer BA X28 (for example) you gain a smaller frontal area but need more depth to counter the loss in rear chamber volume.
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VECTORDJ
Young Croc Joined: 11 June 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 515 |
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I repaired a club sound system in Portland, Maine USA in the fall of 2018. Two of the dual 18s were v and two dual 18 were standard design. It was easy to AB them. The Vs were Mach and the standard ones were Peavey. Not an exact match up but the Vs had more kick. I believe the V adds a small amount of a horn effect. VECTORSONICS
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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It's rather a bandpass effect, but yeah, definately some effect ( not dramatic ) on respons higher up. How much and where depends on 'port" opening, "enclosed" volume. When speakers are mounted fairly hard inwarths and "enclosed" volume is substantial, you could need to take some dB in account regarding crossoverpoints, so "acoustical" crossover sits where it needs to be. |
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APC321
Young Croc Joined: 24 August 2013 Location: West Midlands Status: Offline Points: 684 |
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The attached documentation for the Court Acoustics 2 x 18" sub claims some benefits of the v baffle loading.
https://ibb.co/WxjMNj3 |
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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They totally fail to explain what that benefit is. "based on rear folded horns like 4520" .. not even close. Lots of words, seems all very logical, especially to an uneducated newbie, but no factual substance whatsoever. Way too much sauce of the marketting spin variant There is a moderate ( some dB ) bandpass effect from a "V-bafffle" arrangement, but it usually sits mostly outside the useable range of a subwoofer and must be taken into account when setting up the crossover with kicks, (low)mids or tops. It will certainly not make for more low-end SPL, maybe aid a little bit those kick, (low)mids, etc. Whether that's a benefit to chase after or not, depends on the ability of those kicks, etc.. to do their bottom end with authority or not. Other than that, I see a V-baffle arrangement only as a way to stuff more/bigger speakers in a cabinet with less frontal surface than straight BR flat mounted speakers at the expense of a somewhat bigger cabinet in total. |
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APC321
Young Croc Joined: 24 August 2013 Location: West Midlands Status: Offline Points: 684 |
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It was the words where they spoke about two 18" drivers having a certain piston area. ie. As in a direct radiator box.
Then they spoke about that in a v-baffle these drivers were modulating a volume of air made up by the v-baffle arrangement. ie. Could this volume of air in the v-baffle be treated like the compression chamber in a bass horn? I was wondering if there was some kind of impedence matching going on. |
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snowflake
Old Croc Joined: 29 December 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 3122 |
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yes, the baffles are bracing the middle of the box making the whole thing more rigid and less prone to viration. pointing the drivers toward each other means the motion of the cones cancel each other out and don't transfer vibration to the box as much. it frees up area on the front of the speaker to place the vents. drivers are further back and more protected from liquid, and it means you can use a smaller grill rather than cover the whole front.
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Noyzmunky
Young Croc Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1260 |
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amazing answers guys, thanks. I do notice the shermanns I own have an urgency in the upper ranges (90-110) and defo are way more sensitive to input, but that could be the fane xbs.
Good info and good cross ref of knowledge. Cheers. |
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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.
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hectorberman
Registered User Joined: 25 May 2017 Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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Would there be any hornloading effect if the port was in the middle of the v baffle? Almost acting as a large flared port or would the length of the 'v' be too short to add noticeable improvement?
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