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BMS 12S330 in punisher horn

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Magnitudo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 May 2008 at 12:56pm
Hello everyone,

in the process of building 4 Punishers (to start with), i would like to know if i can replace the 12.00SW CIARE with the BMS PRO 12S330

www.bmspro.info/photos/bmspro_info/12s330.pdf



Qts is quite similiar, but Vas is quite different and BxL is a tad lower.
any comment?thank you very much!


Edited by Magnitudo - 31 May 2008 at 1:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote login4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2008 at 7:33pm
could be a beast that,  fairly hight sensitivity 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnitudo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2008 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by login4 login4 wrote:

could be a beast that,  fairly hight sensitivity 



yep quite cheap too, but i'm not sure it would fit this horn fine..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote login4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 June 2008 at 4:53pm
how cheap is it then?

also its got a FS of 28.6hz which is realy low

it might also be a good contender for the Wicked one sub too
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Magnitudo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnitudo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 6:47am
Originally posted by login4 login4 wrote:

how cheap is it then?

also its got a FS of 28.6hz which is realy low

it might also be a good contender for the Wicked one sub too



it costs around 200€ MSRP but if you work in the business you can get it for a bit more than half then that, so it's fairly good priced.

It seems to me it could work in the punisher but i have doubts because of the very different VAS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitcore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 12:06pm
It looks like it's got one of those foam rubber surrounds that are not very stiff, similar to these speakers I have: http://www.bitcore.org/stuff/Bass/Tumult/Tumult_MK1_&_MK2_2.jpg
The foam rubber is really soft and allows the former to move off-axis in the gap, it almost relies totally on the spider to keep the thing still. If the specs were right, there's still no way these would work in a horn design that loads the cone unevenly because I'd inevitably have coil rubbing.  Since that's a neo woofer, usually the magnetic gap needs to be quite small to take advantage of that really dense flux, unless they have some clever things going on, so that makes off-axis motion even more of a problem...
There's no way of knowing until you handle that little sucker and find out, and then try it in a cabinet.
I'm not saying don't try it!  Someone sim it and see what it does compared to the ciare and the P.audio SD12 (which is what I'd prefer based on mircea bartic's thread). If the sim looks good, I vote you try it! If it's awful you could always build some sealed/ported cabs and try selling them... or use them for home theater or something crazyEvil%20Smile

3" copper sandwich? Why, Cancel my pastrami, I'd love one of those instead!! mmmmm!


Edited by bitcore - 02 June 2008 at 12:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnitudo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by bitcore bitcore wrote:

It looks like it's got one of those foam rubber surrounds that are not very stiff, similar to these speakers I have: http://www.bitcore.org/stuff/Bass/Tumult/Tumult_MK1_&_MK2_2.jpg
The foam rubber is really soft and allows the former to move off-axis in the gap, it almost relies totally on the spider to keep the thing still. If the specs were right, there's still no way these would work in a horn design that loads the cone unevenly because I'd inevitably have coil rubbing.  Since that's a neo woofer, usually the magnetic gap needs to be quite small to take advantage of that really dense flux, unless they have some clever things going on, so that makes off-axis motion even more of a problem...
There's no way of knowing until you handle that little sucker and find out, and then try it in a cabinet.
I'm not saying don't try it!  Someone sim it and see what it does compared to the ciare and the P.audio SD12 (which is what I'd prefer). If the sim looks good, I vote you try it! If it's awful you could always build some sealed/ported cabs and try selling them... or use them for home theater or something crazyEvil%20Smile

3" copper sandwich? Why, Cancel my pastrami, I'd love one of those instead!! mmmmm!


:) LOL @  the pic from the tumult (Car audio fan maybe? :)) had those too lot of time ago!

BTW, i would just order one and test it but i still haven't got the boxes built so, it would be a nonsense.if someone can make a simulation while i build the boxes maybe i can know if they're not a good fit BEFORE ordering them :D anyways  i think i0ll order one anyway and test it whenever the boxes will be finished.

BMS is a german brand and is really good stuff so, i dont think they would make some bad product.
This one seems the best fit, as i didnt find anything better in B&C or 18Sound catalog.

edit _ i forgot, this also comes in a neo version. 12N630L.at least at the looks it seems the same, i'll have a deeper look at the parameters later!


Edited by Magnitudo - 02 June 2008 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 12:32pm
It has a fairly stiff synthetic rubber roll surround and the Neo versions are exactly the same only lighter obviously.
They are optimised for reflex cabs.
I am just building a pair using twin drivers at the moment ( ferrite version).

Tony

p.s. ignore the hole dia. on the PDF it need to be 2mm larger (thank the lord for rotary flap wheels)


Edited by Tony Wilkes - 02 June 2008 at 12:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnitudo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

It has a fairly stiff synthetic rubber roll surround and the Neo versions are exactly the same only lighter obviously.
They are optimised for reflex cabs.
I am just building a pair using twin drivers at the moment ( ferrite version).

Tony

p.s. ignore the hole dia. on the PDF it need to be 2mm larger (thank the lord for rotary flap wheels)


thanks for the infos, are you building punishers for them?or which kind of boxes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkmatter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 1:31pm
From what I can tell they'd be slightly more sensitive and drop fractionally lower than the 12SW, but would be limited by displacement/max power. I can't account for the discrepancies between the way the manufacturers measure t/s specs though, and I'm new to this modelling malarkey, so that might not be an accurate picture.

Do you think the voice coil will stay cool on the BMS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 2:47pm
Quote fairly hight sensitivity
Calculated from n0 (which is only 0,5%) it's about 89 dB/W/m instead of it's claimed sensitivity (Ciare is 0,64% = 90 dB/W/m)
 
I think it will do the job but run it in Hornresp to be sure. It has less Xmax (8 mm vs. 11,5 mm calculated the same way) and a 3" VC instead of a 4" VC. So the Ciare seems to be the choice over the BMS if your going for maximum performance.
 
Wkr Johan
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 June 2008 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Magnitudo Magnitudo wrote:



thanks for the infos, are you building punishers for them?or which kind of boxes?


They are straight forward reflex boxes. 

I do not think that they are right for a horn loaded box but stranger things have happened.

Voice coil cooling is pretty good on all the BMS coned drivers because of some nice engineering.

Tony
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