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Boominator MINI (development thread)

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Aterren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aterren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2018 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by dextrr dextrr wrote:

Originally posted by Aterren Aterren wrote:


There may be a misunderstanding here.    Let’s start with the boominator versions—
Mini - Aura NS6
Micro - Monacor SP60


My understanding is:

V1 - Aura NS6
V2 - Monacor SP60
Vx - Something with Dayton drivers?

Mini - 4 Woofers -> 2x8 Ohm parallel per side
Micro - 2 Woofers -> 2x4 Ohm back to back; i.e. half a Mini

Anyway I want to build a Boominator with 2x 8 Ohm Aura NS6 wired for L/R. I realize there is no crossover-design available for this yet.

Cheers



Tthe term “half” was traditionally used for the 2 driver solutions.   The NS6 is mini and SP60 is micro. Full stop.   Saturnus never published any design with Dayton drivers so those, in my mind would not be a Boominator.   While it may be a bit pedantic I do think it is important to stick to the terms that were provided by the designer and commonly used.   To do otherwise means any discussion has to start out with what did *you* mean by xyz.    In the end people will do what they want of course but these messy threads will just get harder to follow and discourage newcomers.   I would like to avoid that.

...In re-reading the post I feel like I am officially a grumpy old man... ugh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aterren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2018 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by protos protos wrote:

No mistake. Micro is only two woofers so 8ohm per channel.
Other options for drivers would be dayton 140 or faital pro 5fe which are more expensive.


If you built the SP60 version I would *highly* recommend building the NS6 version as originally published.   If need be, cut the SP60 version apart to save the tweeters.   Trust me, you will not regret it.   The NS6 *is* that much better and a good bit louder too (with the max Amp gain increased change).

ovaldezkep2 - I know you built an NS6 (I miss my drivers).   Did you also build an SP60?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ovaldezkep2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 2:29am
@Atterren, Yes I did and I must agree with you that the NS6 mini is significantly better than the monacor SP-60 version.

@dextrr, As far as making a half mini with the NS6, you can use a mono amp that has 15-20 watts rms with the same crossover that would be the max amount of power before distortion. But half of the mini won’t be a true bipole regardless of having a L/R crossover design.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tralfraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 3:27am
Having trolled this forum since the page number was in the 40s(?), AND the Aura NS6 is available for the Mini, can I get a couple of links in Reply showing build notes to complete a Mini Boominator. I am nowhere close to most of you in audio experience but I know I can build a Mini with YOUR help.
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aterren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 4:26am
Sure. It might be the weekend but I will pull something together.   Do you know how to use sketch up for dimensions?   It isn’t a hard build if you are handy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dextrr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 8:14am
Allright, half a mini then. Does compute considering the SP60 are smaller.

@oval
Single channel is an idea with which I could use the xo design. Haven't decided on an amp yet anyway.
Concerning the bipolar part: I'd split the mini in the middle, i.e. 350 instead of 700 long. So I'd still have two drivers back to back. I'm certain this is the bipolar part of it, and not that fact that the arrangement is mirrored left/right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote protos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 8:59am
The bipolar is a very interesting concept and works well but only for outdoors really in a large open space with many people spread around. Do not forget that the big boominator was intended originally for  this use and the mini was more a miniaturization exercise. I do not find any fundamental advantages acoustically  if it is used indoors or even outdoors for smaller spaces and fewer people and where the speaker can be placed near a wall. In fact if your use is 90% indoors or patio use you would be better off with a normal front firing stereo design. It is much cheaper since you halve the most expensive components (drivers) and less complex as a box construction. In fact the drivers would also be more linear since they would be working in a more ideal volume of sealed enclosure whereas with the bipolar design there is a high Q in the upper bass due to the limited internal volume shared between two woofers. Personally I would not think a mono bipolar design would be very good sounding - I would suggest to just go for the micro type design which is normal monopolar stereo.
Aterren:  if I was tempted to redo the monacor mini the aura ns6 would be very interesting as well as other speakers I mentioned that have much higher xmax parameters. I would also use a mini dsp /active crossover instead of a passive crossover. Another very nice option is the
 

Sure Electronics AA-JA32473 2 x 30 Watt Class D Audio Amplifier Board with Audio DSP - JAB3-30

I think dsp is the way to go for boomboxes to maximize performance in the bass which the major shortcoming. Otherwise the production boomboxes will sound way better. What they are doing is equalizing the bass to flat to around 70hz and then applying a very high steep high pass filter below that. O n top of that they are applying a variable limiter on the bass which reduces bass output at higher volumes to protect the speakers. So with dsp you can have your cake and eat it too!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tralfraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Aterren Aterren wrote:

Sure. It might be the weekend but I will pull something together.   Do you know how to use sketch up for dimensions?   It isn’t a hard build if you are handy.


Thanks Aterren.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aterren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 7:11pm
@protos - there are benefits for dipoles even inside too but I won’t even try to articulate the pros and cons.   Clearly price is a con of dipoles.

Regarding a DSP the sure device wouldn’t give optimal results.    Ideally you would have 4 channel amplification so you can eliminate the passive xo in favor digital. Also there is more to the DSP bass than driving a flat response and implementing a steep filter.    You might find this interesting:https://www.math-works.com/help/audio/examples/psychoacoustic-bass-enhancer.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dextrr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 7:47am
Great that there's some discourse going on again here!
Especially the input regarding bipolar design is very interesting for me. The thing is that in terms of design I don't dig it :D So now I am considering going for an actively crossed version, with tweeters in parallel on one channel, and woofers in parallel on the other. That way I could get a 4 ohm/12 v setup, and spare the passive crossover.

Aterren, do you know of any usable DSP at a lower price point than the minidsp? I know, that one is quite affordable already, but still some dough...
A simple crossover could be designed with passive components I guess, lacking a DSP though.
Also I can't open your link to math works.
Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote protos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 9:20am
Originally posted by dextrr dextrr wrote:

So now I am considering going for an actively crossed version, with tweeters in parallel on one channel, and woofers in parallel on the other. That way I could get a 4 ohm/12 v setup, and spare the passive crossover.


Don't you want stereo ?
I don't think you will find something cheaper than the minidsp.
I f you want four ohm speakers there are other options out there with similar characteristics to the aura ns6. I know this is a boominator thread but what you are suggesting is a non boominator design - so why not find more ideal woofers for your application. Also if you plan to dsp you are not shackled by the whole boominator crossover design. So you can tailor your crossover and frequency response with any set of drivers.
The boominator with aura ns6 is a proven design and if you want a more paint by numbers project then it won't fail you. However the boominator ns6 is , as we said, a design optimized for a bipole speaker and not what you are suggesting which is a hybrid mono bipole.
In conclusion, if you want a good boombox with dsp and not a boominator why are you limiting your options to the aura ns6 only?

for example
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-nd140-4-5-1-4-aluminum-cone-midbass-driver-4-ohm--290-216


Edited by protos - 19 January 2018 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lutkeveld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 10:41am
That is the driver I will be using in my design!
DSP is indeed the future, I'm busy with making the ultimate amplifier for this application.
I should have some good news next week. If I get the hard- and software all working correctly, I won't be far from publishing the final design.

There should be modern follow up design for the MICRO including high power class-d amplification, DSP and bluetooth. You should be able to get quite far with Sure JAB3, their lithium add-on and the bluetooth module.  
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