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Bose 802C2 Controller Frequency Response

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studio45 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2010 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Guy Johnson Guy Johnson wrote:

Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

Yes the controller attempts to correct for all the shortcomings of the physical box design. RIDICULOUS way to build a soundsystem if you ask me. As you can see the 802 only really responds between 400 and 4000Hz. Outside that range it's mostly EQ you are hearing!
I disagree. The speakers and controller are a package. The 802s on their own Are Not The System. If nowadays there was an 802 with amp / EQ inside it, no-one would complain.

I ran 802s for a while 600w each, they were great. Treated with respect for their design, they put out very good, musical material, whether quiet, or very loud... But with kick-drum and more bass, you need subs and x-over, obviously. 

The bass feedback problems mentioned are due to the lower bass-response of the 802 compared with a standard '15-and-horn' — coupled with the the omni-directionality of that lower bass. 

The 802 has its uses, especially with really close-up work, where the 802s wide dispersion and sounding good close-up are needed ... where for instance, a standard '12 (or especially 15) and Horn' design will never sound right. 

My only complaint about the sound would be the lack of the very highest frequencies, but at least the highs are not hyped and 'horny' sounding.
Yes i understand, see your point, get you, but.....there's a limit! A little bit of DSP can be a very good thing - pull the voice coils into perfect alignment, get rid of annoying resonances, help out with inconvenient cancellations. It can make a good design really sparkle. I don't think it should be used to force a set of small cheap speakers into behaving like a larger and better quality one. 
If that approach became widespread (not that it has, so far) manufacturers might get discouraged from spending money on creating excellent drivers, expecting everyone to just "sort it out in the DSP" instead? and just bash out cheap, insensitive high power drivers with response curves like a map of the river.
Basically, I'm with Martin on this one - if your box doesn't sound pretty good on its own just plugged straight into the amp, with no EQ, then you're not done designing it yet.

Incidentally I am a massive, massive fan of Hi Fi/studio monitor paper cone tweeters and love the quality of HF that one can get from them, however the drivers in the 802s really are midrange only, hence the dullness that no amount of EQ can help. The "horny sound"...well that is the distortion result of using an inferior horn/CD combo, and lately I've been hearing some very, very "smooth" HF from up to date comp drivers and horns.
Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SimonVR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2010 at 9:11am
As a long-term Bose 802 user I find these cabs have a lot of advantages. They are relatively lightweight, flexible and weather resistant. They sound pretty good for a box of their size. OK a lot of the sound is down to some very aggressive eq, but you can't have everything!

A significant number of other speaker manufacturers are now using electronic techniques to correct for speaker design, look at most big line-arrays and they are aimed using software. That software is controlling DSP to do the aiming. Personally I prefer to use PA systems without the need for corrective processing, I know Funktion One manage it. Yes, we need crossovers and delays to time-align the different drivers, but we ideally shouldn't need equalization.

Anyway, back to the point! I run 802s off a DCX2496, usually in a tri-amp configuration with 302s and (slightly modified) X1s. I mapped the curve from a Bose controller then tweaked by ear. The filters listed below are what I use to correct the 802s. I should point out that this is for Series II models, the Series III need a different curve. I've not tested it (haven't got access to any) but I would expect Series I 802s to use the same curve as Series IIs, they use the same Bose controllers. If people are interested I'll post the equalization I have for the Series IIIs.

802 SII as High-Mids
--------------------------
LPF; But 24, 17.6kHz
HPF; But 24, 154Hz
EQ1; 10dB, 3.85kHz, 12dB/Oct, High Shelving
EQ2; -5dB, 3.39kHz, Q=1, Parametric
EQ3; -3dB, 620Hz, Q=0.56, Parametric
EQ4; 1.5dB, 6.86kHz, Q=3.5, Parametric

802 SII Full Range
-----------------------
LPF; But 24, 17.6kHz
HPF; But 48, 47Hz
EQ1; 10dB, 3.85kHz, 12dB/Oct, High Shelving
EQ2; -5dB, 3.39kHz, Q=1, Parametric
EQ3; -3dB, 620Hz, Q=0.56, Parametric
EQ4; 12dB, 111Hz, 12dB/Oct, Low Shelving
EQ5; 1.5dB, 6.86kHz, Q=3.5, Parametric

Note that due to cone-excursion limits when producing bass, maximum power is dramatically reduced when operating full-range.

IMHO the speakers sound better run from this than the analogue Bose controllers. You also improve the noise floor, interference rejection and add limiters using the DCX. Not to mention the flexibility of being able to configure your own crossover points (the main reason I wanted to use it was to add subs in addition to bins). I've not really compared using the DCX to the current Bose digital controller (PDC), but I believe the DCX is significantly cheaper.

I should also point out that this is not an approved way of running 802s and any manufacturers guarantee is probably voided. Bose do state that you need to use one of their controllers, so if you use this it's at your own risk!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W. Christian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2011 at 8:18pm
Hello Simon.

I'm interested in the equalization for the Series III. Could you help me ?

Thank you so much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2011 at 5:53pm

 

Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

.......As you can see the 802 only really responds between 400 and 4000Hz....

Have you not heard the saying," No Highs, No Lows, Must Be a Bose..."

Like any tool, in the right application (Conference or Vocal PA/Acoustic Sets), perfectly fit for purpose. I would say that using them full range, as DJ monitors or FOH, is beyond what they are capable off, or really what they were designed for. Equally using a F1 Dance stack for conference work may not be appropriate.

Confucious say "Bad workman blames his tools, but good workman uses the right tool correctly in the first place"

DSP corrective techniques is on the rise though. Many active boxes have some form of eq/time smear correction built in to correct for cab/driver shortcomings. Can be far cheaper than designing the box "correctly", but when the cab design is inherently a compromise too far in one direction for a special reason, can bring performance back to acceptable levels.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nachural Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2011 at 7:07pm
Absolutely right Matt. In certain applications they are fine, it's just a case of respecting their limitations and using them accordingly. Not my first choice of cabinet but we have half a dozen 802's in the hire stock and they still earn their keep.
it's all just cardboard and magnets really
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SimonVR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2011 at 11:18am
As requested here is the EQ I have for the Series III 802s. This is based on the initial Bose EQ tweeked slightly by-ear to better match the Series II EQ I'm using. I recently ran stacks of SII and SIII (top-only) next to each other and could not descern any difference in the sound. The curve is slightly more complex than the SII and uses an extra filter.

802 SIII
----------
LPF; But 24, 17.6kHz
HPF; But 48, 47Hz
EQ1; +9dB, 3.85kHz, 12dB/Oct, High Shelving
EQ2; -5dB, 3.39kHz, Q=1, Parametric
EQ3; -3.5dB, 620Hz, Q=1.1, Parametric
EQ4; +1.3dB, 7.32kHz, Q=3.5, Parametric
EQ5; -2dB, 1.98kHz, Q=3.2, Parametric
EQ6; 12dB, 111Hz, 12dB/Oct, Low Shelving - Full-range only

Usual caveat; this is not an approved way of running 802s and any manufacturers guarantee is probably voided. Bose do state that you need to use one of their controllers, so if you use this it's at your own risk!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcsb36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2011 at 7:33pm
Just checked the eq settings on the MK11 cabs and they sound good. Im constantly setting up sound webs on 802 MK11 and i had a different eq settings but they sound a bit better. Nothing sounds as good as a good old fashion bose controller.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flying Dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2011 at 8:44am
Hello,
 
Does anyone have these settings for the Bose 402 cabs? I want to drive my Bose 402 cabs with the behringer dcx 2496.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timo Beckman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2011 at 9:20am
Regarding the measurement you did . Using smaart allows you to make a FFT measurement . To know what your processor is doing you need to measure with a FFT and not a RTA because it does not display time
The sound will be as good as the band play's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shelfstacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2011 at 8:20am
I thought it was Better Off With Something Else?

I'd agree though, processing the crap out of boxes is proliferate these days, just look at D&B, another hideously overpriced system. I'd love to see a suggested tuning point list for their kit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jjoakim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2020 at 9:17pm
This is old post yes.

But does anyone know,  does Bose 802 C II controller modify signal for 502B subs?

My PA set is 
2x802 mk2
4x502BEX, but I usually use 2
Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive Pro

Now my wiring is mixer > dcx
Dcx is connected to C II and directly to sub amp.

I run 802 in fullrange
In last gig I tried to get best sound out of them, first I had xover at 180hz, but I didn't get it..

Then I googled a bit, even 502B spec sheet says that 502 is 180hz,  its no good, I dropped the it to 130hz. Then 802 plays over 130 and 502 under it, but...
130hz plays better.

Cause 802 is not good in full range 50 to 20000, so it is better to cut it.

What is the best crossover for 802 and 502B and is there any frequencys that needs to be raised and anyone to lower?
Or is there anything else?

Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2020 at 6:18pm
A club I used to work in had 802's over 502's and they just used the 802 controller. It sounded OK, for Bose.
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