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Breaking in drivers

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BJtheDJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 1:44am
Originally posted by oren oren wrote:

Yeah everyone seems a bit tense ey ? I thought it was a simple thing but turns out ive delved a bit deep . Aside from this ive been trying to study ts parameters and how they relate to box desgign and i noticed that the pd 186 is totaly not what seems to be suitable for horn loadin, maybe a br or th ? Am i missing something? Im tryingl to learn more about sound now that im off work but there seems to be so much conflicting information . My driver in question is arriving tommorow,  gonna be rocking in the quarantine  Tongue


Enjoy  it.  It's  all  about  the  bass,  innit ???
Only users lose drugs
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 10:10am
Originally posted by concept-10 concept-10 wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

So you were born in 1980(ref members profile) and you list above that you had paid work in this business from 1982---That makes you a two year old getting paid work in New York---I am truly amazed!!!!!


I am GenerationX (1970). I must of made an error in my profile.

Best Regards,

LOLLOLLOL
 And you were a paid sound man from the age of twelve LOLLOLLOL



Yes!
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

So you had your first job when you were 12? Gosh,im very impressed, at age 12 i was washing cars for pocket money. 

 
My best friends birthday party LOL

We borrowed an upstairs neighbour stereo and played in the basement in a private house. I got 20.00 for playing. That was a lot of money for a 12 year old in the 1980s.



Best Regards,

Don't hate my first paid gig was 12 years old. Clap

It was not unusual to earn money at an early age in the 1980's.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 10:13am
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

While you are on line Elliot could you please enlighten all of us on here of your practical experience in the Pro Audio industry as you class yourself as a soundman but we have never seen anything from you that verifies this fact---You do at times like to comment on certain areas that it is clear to the rest of us you have no experience in this field so I thought that it would be great if you could tell us of your experience to date.

It is going to brief for I am in the heart of the Coronavirus epidemic at the moment and everyday the Goverment is changing something here in New York.

 I have been in the sound business (being paid) since 1982.

 From 1982 - 1998 House Parties, Basement Parties, Dance Clubs, Block Parties, Sound Clashes, West Indian Day Parade

 From 1998 - 2014 West Indian Day Parade, Block Parties Small Bands, Weddings, Corporate (Government Museums, Fire Department) events.

 From 2014 - 2019  Corporate Events, Weddings

 From 2020 - Locked Down, Corporate Events, Weddings.

99% of my clients are Women, and get dates based on word of mouth.

Best Regards,



So, this isn't you then ???



Not I.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 10:24am
Originally posted by oren oren wrote:

Yeah everyone seems a bit tense ey ? I thought it was a simple thing but turns out ive delved a bit deep . Aside from this ive been trying to study ts parameters and how they relate to box desgign and i noticed that the pd 186 is totaly not what seems to be suitable for horn loadin, maybe a br or th ? Am i missing something? Im tryingl to learn more about sound now that im off work but there seems to be so much conflicting information . My driver in question is arriving tommorow,  gonna be rocking in the quarantine  Tongue


Sound is subjective. So you will always get various answers based on user experience.

Have you downloaded REW?

It will allow you to measure the TS Parameters of a driver in addition to measuring the frequency response of your finished design. 


You can also read this to get a basic understanding of TS Parameters and where the PD 186 driver stands




Best Regards,




Edited by Elliot Thompson - 31 March 2020 at 10:24am
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Wikl109 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 11:04am
An interesting thread here.
Here's my take on it:
A lot of the major driver manufacturers have video's showing their finished products being tested to make sure the T/S parameters are to spec. I'd assume the ones that don't pass are scrapped/re-coned.
These tests are often quite rigorous sessions with tones that really get the cones moving.
So essentially a driver has had a small amount of 'breaking in' done as part of it's manufacture/testing.
Drivers that are designed to have a low Fs are generally very stiff when new and you'll struggle to move them by hand with out puncturing the cone. They do always loosen up with age so the sound must change.
So i'd say a driver comes partially 'broken in' from new and the sound will change over time. It probably varies with different drivers as to how much so there is really no universal answer to this.
BTW guys really sad to see people falling out over differences of opinion on a forum used for discussion. It kind of defeats the object really especially when we're all interested in the same subjects.
Cheers, Chris.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Wikl109 Wikl109 wrote:


BTW guys really sad to see people falling out over differences of opinion on a forum used for discussion. It kind of defeats the object really especially when we're all interested in the same subjects.


When science and concepts that are globally accepted in the audio community get debated as opinions, and put against arguments made of limited "soundman experience" supported by some random technical blurbs, it already defeats the objects of the forum, wich should be sharing and developing knowledge as far as i am concerned, not fighting it with middle age attitude, like often Elliot seems to do, with a language that sounds dangerously knowledgeable to the newbys.

As stated we already lost Kyle round here, who was providing an unvaluable insight from a pro audio outlet and sharing load of technical aspects about how it is done in 2020 (and not "how ye ole soundmen used to do it back in the days") , tired of this attitude.

I am relatively new around here, and not a loud person, so I was hesitant to post this, call names or to get lost in flamy debates, but i really feel sorry for this as i see the level and interest going down.

This is indeed the place for roots sounds and classic sound systems, but not exclusively, there is also people interested in running o designing sounds with modern concepts and understanding and discussing the advancements of the craft, and this kind of attitude is pushing those people away.

We did ban Efinque recently, but I doubt he did as much harm to the forum with his posts.

about the thread matter, Klippel suggests there is a measurable fs shift.

Edited by Jo bg - 31 March 2020 at 12:36pm
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oren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:08pm
Toastyghost is kyle im guessing? P&L people,  tis wat music is about.
Music is nice..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:24pm

More concerning is if we are a microcosm is this schism reflected in the macrocosm..  

Stay safe and avoid the miasma.. 
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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Dub Specialist Sound View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Specialist Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 6:17pm
Got to admit , yes was easy to earn money at a very young age, some of us wasnt fortunate to have a mother and farther, so you had to do wat you had to do, i was working at a very young age in the 80s, agreed with elliot...
Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

The guy isnt talking about breaking in a driver for measuring or testing purposes, and i dont think Robbo was either.


Hmmm, you don't really get it do you??

Breaking (used to be wearing in back in the day) is absolutely the same whether you're measuring or listening.

No mate, I'm struggling to understand it

I get its the same measuring or listening.

Im not understanding if breaking in in free air with whatever signal has a different and more positive effect than doing it in cab with music.


Simple answer is no.  It's to do with the suspension, which in it's fresh-manufactured form will have a certain stiffness.  Some few low-frequency minutes will be enough to bring it to a state in where it will remian substantially the same fora long period.

But bear in mind that taking speaker from a freezing cold van in the middle of winter, or from a baking hot van in the middle of a heatwave will have the same sort (not the same, just the same sort) of effect on performance.

Quote I appreciate there is a likely time difference to get to the same worn in ts parameters but is it measurably better done one way than the other?


It's my opinion that there would be no difference.

This is exactly what i had assumed. 

I guess it depends if you're happy to wait for them to break in in cab or need them pre done. Testing etc or just want them ready to sound as they will broken in from minute 1.

I know my subs sounded different at the end of the night compared to the start of the night the first time I used them as they were loaded with drivers straight out of the box.  I'd assumed this breaking in was the same as it would have been if I'd done it in free air but never found anyone with any kind of proof, hence my first post in the thread.  

Not sure why it got so heated. Seems a fairly simple question if someone had data!


Edited by JonB67 - 31 March 2020 at 7:11pm
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BJtheDJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

<<Great big snip of previous responses>>

This is exactly what i had assumed. 

I guess it depends if you're happy to wait for them to break in in cab or need them pre done. Testing etc or just want them ready to sound as they will broken in from minute 1.

I know my subs sounded different at the end of the night compared to the start of the night the first time I used them as they were loaded with drivers straight out of the box.  I'd assumed this breaking in was the same as it would have been if I'd done it in free air but never found anyone with any kind of proof, hence my first post in the thread.  

Not sure why it got so heated. Seems a fairly simple question if someone had data!


Your third paragraph is something different; that's almost certainly thermal compression.

As the gig progresses the voice coils heat up and their electrical resistance (reactance in the case of a coil) increases as the temperature rises (and since they're coils that resistance will vary with frequency) ; as the coil temperature rises their output will reduce and as a consequence volumes will be turned up and it becaomes a vicious circle - it's like Ourobos the snake that eats its' own tail.

  • a. Deaf DJ that can't hear any of the music unless all of the red lights are on, under the possible influence of some kind of non-prescribed chemicals possible purchased from a bar.
  • b. Reduced speaker output due to thermal compression.
  • c. Amplifier being turned up because of a combination of a. and b. - which now returns you to b. influenced by a.  OuchLOLOuchLOLOuchLOLOuchLOLOuchLOLOuch


Edited by BJtheDJ - 31 March 2020 at 9:36pm
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2020 at 10:04pm
They weren't in any way stressed so that's not very likely. 

Surely that's exactly what you'd expect? Or are you saying you would expect the drivers breaking in to be imperceptible?

Heated comment was about this thread... Not the speakers!


Edited by JonB67 - 31 March 2020 at 10:10pm
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