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budget amp for pd1850 and pd154
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dylan-penguinmedia View Drop Down
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Points: 4575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dylan-penguinmedia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2018 at 9:53pm
^^^ what Jace said.
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Points: 2272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2018 at 10:03pm
800 quid used or twice that new for 5000w isn't on the same level of budget as the Berry though. (I mean obviously not the same level but not even the same league. Totally different worlds).

Edited by Hemisphere - 16 April 2018 at 10:04pm
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Points: 2463 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boots-hifi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2018 at 10:29pm
Got a crest 10004 which will happily drive all of your cabs £750. Pm me if you’re interested.
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Points: 2272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 7:24am
Quote Got a crest 10004 which will happily drive all of your cabs £750
That's what I'd go for if on a tight budget without sacrificing quality. Provided you can handle the backbreaking weight. 62.2kg. And excessive power supply restrictions. Some venues will literally be incapable of runing the 10004 and others will need some wizardry applied to get it going.

It won't squeeze out everything your system's capable of obviously, but for the price of 2 iNukes you'd get about 700w into each of your Hogs and 400w into each HD/midtop.

Most other comparable solutions on this budget you'll be looking at two amps minimum, £1000+ for anything other than Berry. £1800+ for any total system solution that'll actually drive all your speakers to their full potential.

HDs will keep up with Hogs on half power, and while Hogs would certainly like 1500w of power each, and can still sound reasonably good with the occasional peak up there, things do get hairy after 1100w or so (driver dependent) so after factoring power compression, at most you're talking about around -2dB of clipped potential or -1dB of unclipped potential...Or -4dB of clipped potential if you like to absolutely rag your system.

Something to think about regardless of the Crest amp - options for a 2x torroidal amp solution open up a lot if you look at your power requirements like that.
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Points: 4410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 8:29am
Nope, to do with Gonads, sheer grunt available in reserve or via wizardry (Powersoft etc).

IE> An old H&H V800 against a Prosound of twice the output.

Not to do with total harmonic distortion I wouldn't think?
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Points: 262 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JBK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 8:40am
Yeah tried 1 gsub a channel on a inuke, didn't got much juice, clear difference in output compared to ev p3000 and proline 3000! I guess the Inuke doesn't deliver the advertised power
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APW View Drop Down
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Points: 1174 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 9:15am
Originally posted by JBK JBK wrote:

Yeah tried 1 gsub a channel on a inuke, didn't got much juice, clear difference in output compared to ev p3000 and proline 3000! I guess the Inuke doesn't deliver the advertised power


No quessing needed, we know what it will do. Read teslamans 2nd post :
https://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

unfortunately the pictures have now gone (thankyou Photobucket for breaking the internet!!).


Edited by APW - 17 April 2018 at 9:17am
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Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 9:26am
Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

I remember reading somewhere about the quality of power in amps... meaning that amps rated with lower output power values would still perform better than budget amps running heaps of power.

I guess it has something to do with THD..

EDIT : and slew rates

If you read the thread on blue arans q10 4 channel amp you'll see the dilemma in full. Numbers sell kit and the higher the number the better they'll sell. Roughly speaking at the top pro level if it doesn't do what it says on the box the real pros won't buy it.  At the bottom level people pick the one with the best numbers so if you can artificially inflate its wattage by just printing bigger numbers in the box there's a financial incentive to do so and no ones going to call you out as everyone does it.  

And its got worse over time.  Thats why quality stuff from back in the day with 1000w watts on it is probably delivering it, and your brand new 6000w inuke probably isn't.  

EDIT: nothing, i just wanted to join your club. 
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Points: 2272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 9:55am
Quote I remember reading somewhere about the quality of power in amps... meaning that amps rated with lower output power values would still perform better than budget amps running heaps of power.
Depends what you mean by 'perform better'. Reliability, performance in clip, damping factor, matching of rated power to actual power - on all these counts a lower power expensive amp is likely to perform better. Are these the biggest priorities in a budget system? Probably not. In that case 'perform better' probably means: 'Money IN equals more Watts OUT without sounding SHITE'.

There will be a margin of error in reliability of ratings, so a more expensive amp will deliver closer to it's rated power than a budget amp, but it's only when you get into the realms of Skytronic MAX POWER ratings that this makes a difference so large that the amp should be ruled out altogether. Research your amp before you buy if the price tag seems too good to be true. Behringer rates 3000wpc and delivers 2200, which is still mindboggling amounts of power for the money. 

Amps with lower power ratings which despite their lower power ratings remain consistently popular for professional use (ie the old Crest amps, Citronics etc) remain popular because of high performance in other areas. Obviously. I mean, obviously. Even in new amps, if you're paying considerably more for lower power you can be certain that your money will be going somewhere, although fashions/branding needs to be considered - price and performance are clearly not pegged to each other directly and everyone's requirements vary.

In context you need to look at the requirements of the OP. I'm sure they don't want an amp that sounds unacceptably bad, but you'd struggle to find a high power pro amp that does. They have a lot of power hungry speakers to drive and they're on a budget. We don't know how much of a budget, but that 'budget' is the main stated requirement is enough to indicate that price per Watt is the main consideration.
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Points: 2272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 11:26am
This isn't relevant to the problem at hand. Actually it's the opposite of the correct approach.

If you bridge your amps into one speaker each then you'll need more amps in total, so that's not a good budget option. You want as few amps as possible if funds are tight.

I mean you *might* be able to pick up 6 used 1000w amps for about 130 quid each if you're lucky but you'd either be on an endless mission to find a matched set of a half decent brand or you'd have a mish-mash of different amp types on each speaker, which isn't a good idea, but for the same price or less you could pick up one massive amp like the Crest or a couple of smaller ~3000-4000w amps.

QSC Powerlight 4 sells now and then on eBay for 400 quid. 4000w, or 8k for the same price as that 6x1000w mish-mash. The system in question would need a minimum of 7, preferably 10 amps like that anyway. You can even pick up a Behringer Ep4000 for 200 quid with a bit of luck. Not the most reliable amps in 4ohm bridge it must be said but that's a definite 'raw power' budget option if you're lucky enough to find a few at a good price.

8k into the Hogs, 4k into the HDs and 750w PC into the midtops running stereo. 1200 Euros brand new. Numbers may need to be taken down a notch to account for spec sheet inflation but you don't need 8k for 4 Hogs anyway.


Edited by Hemisphere - 17 April 2018 at 12:37pm
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jammin75 View Drop Down
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Points: 2375 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammin75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

I remember reading somewhere about the quality of power in amps... meaning that amps rated with lower output power values would still perform better than budget amps running heaps of power.

I guess it has something to do with THD..

EDIT : and slew rates

If you read the thread on blue arans q10 4 channel amp you'll see the dilemma in full. Numbers sell kit and the higher the number the better they'll sell. Roughly speaking at the top pro level if it doesn't do what it says on the box the real pros won't buy it.  At the bottom level people pick the one with the best numbers so if you can artificially inflate its wattage by just printing bigger numbers in the box there's a financial incentive to do so and no ones going to call you out as everyone does it.  

And its got worse over time.  Thats why quality stuff from back in the day with 1000w watts on it is probably delivering it, and your brand new 6000w inuke probably isn't.  

EDIT: nothing, i just wanted to join your club. 


Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by nickyburnell nickyburnell wrote:

What is the real world non Roots 4r performance like?  IE 2 x Gsub with XB's


From personal use of them on mates set, I know they definitely do 1kwpc @ 8 ohms.

Personally, would not ever use them at 4 ohms stereo..

Waiting for lab test on the 12000, but logic dictates,  they should do solid 2kwpc @ 4 ohms, downto 30hz.

Solid, as in, embarrass a lot of brand name  lightweights, rated at 3kwpc @ 4 ohms.  <wink>

LOL


they do the business if you use them right Smile
feel the vibes !!!   "Who Feels it Knows it"            Strong like Lion              
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2018 at 8:14pm
Assuming you're referring to the inuke i didn't say they say they didn' do the business!  Just said they didn't deliver the number implied on the box. Smile  They were high on my list of options when i looked at amps. 
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