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Bull-Nosed Horn Project
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burningbush View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 25 May 2009
Location: Pictland
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Points: 5897 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote burningbush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:37pm
@ high volume Matt, ie PA use flat out is abit fatiguing.  Home use with in limits, maybe?  IDK as I have no experience of them, but like the theory.
music is the message
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Teunos View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 November 2008
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Points: 1793 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

I thought that the great and the good had a problem with the BMS co-ax drivers - 3rd order harmonics or summit'.

How can you do a super low distortion bass (PPSL), and then use a super high distortion BMS annular ring co-ax driver?

Wink
I actually tried recreating ''super high 10% third order distortion'', but could not at any level of SPL get the 3rd harmonic dist. to be louder than the 2nd Confused
At 1W i measured less than 1% THD and at 10W less than 3%THD.
Could not bear anything louder than this so stopped at 10W.



Edited by Teunos - 04 November 2014 at 1:52pm
Best regards,
Teun.
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Joined: 04 September 2010
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Points: 4231 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2014 at 4:36pm
No, wasn't having a pop at you, poking a stick a Mr Mogale -

Originally posted by R Mogale R Mogale wrote:

Welcome to the world of annular ring compression drivers and 'certain' coax drivers.

Yep they sound great for 10 mins. Its like hearing a whole new level of detail in the music. But thats just the third order harmonic distortion. Its the reason Aphex aural exciters were popular, they added something that wasn't there. But it was just distortion, which is ok at Hi Fi listening levels. 

I've tried to tame these 'drivers' for years, but I'm not good enough. I measure over 10% of distortion (THD) on angular ring compression drivers, which will leave you fatigued on long listening sessions.

I hate to say it, but 'that' company should just stick to making bass/mid drivers. They should be banned from making HF devices as some of us are sensitive to very high levels of distortion. 


Originally posted by R Mogale R Mogale wrote:

And don't start me on the HF beaming and totally unpredictable polar patterns these coax drivers have. 

To be honest I love *** HF drivers as if you like them it tells me you have no idea about sound.


So what else is there? I heard Tony ASS's R2U at war volume. IIRC he used a B&C DCX50. To my ears that sounded nice. But no longer made? The current DCM50 is just the mid section (600-10KHz).

I like the idea of these mid donuts around a conventional Hf, as a point source for 600Hz and up. Frees up the 10" or 12" to do 150/200Hz to 600Hz ish, and then kicks and subs as required. Puts everything onto around 2 octaves per driver (if you squint really hard).

And don't forget, I read somewhere that I am amazing, so it must be true. King of somewhere else by all accounts, too. Wink
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"
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Teunos View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 November 2008
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Points: 1793 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2014 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

No, wasn't having a pop at you, poking a stick a Mr Mogale -
I realised that, the 10% in my post was a reference to the post you refer to as well.
Best regards,
Teun.
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 February 2005
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Points: 7747 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2014 at 5:08pm
Well if those drivers were so terribly bad, would Tannoy, EAW and many many other companies using?
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Timebomb View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 October 2004
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Points: 2707 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2014 at 5:18pm
Is Rog not using them in the Prime V2? 

http://www.voidaudio.com/support/item/download/207_dacc04d2624fd76dc667d945c34420e3.html

I think the 3rd harmonic does sound a bit high, there are a bit machine like, but IMD seems low to my ears and mid range impulse response is faster than anything else ive heard. 

I like em,  can see why some might find them a bit soulless though.   
James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk
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_djk_ View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 November 2004
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2014 at 2:40am
"Is this you work Dennis."
 
My basic design, bull-nose made by a professional cabinet maker. Pattern for the curved ribs made for me by a sign shop (my friend Steve at All-Brite Signs) with his big plotter.
 
Customer specified the HF driver, assembled the elliptical tractrix horn from CNC'd material (from Dave Harris).
 
Bill Woods provided the starting point for the crossover design.
 
Me? Just the designer and general contractor, a big effort on the part of many.
 
(my health failed in 2005, I have trouble sitting in front of a computer at work all day pointing and clicking)
djk
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all bass View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 October 2012
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Points: 1855 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2014 at 8:59am
Very nice Dennis.

Do you have any pictures of the PPSL part inside the horn?
https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/
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_djk_ View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 November 2004
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2014 at 9:24am
An early version with $10 surplus SEAS drivers (in a LaScala). 
 
 
.


Edited by _djk_ - 05 November 2014 at 9:26am
djk
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R Mogale View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 October 2014
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Points: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote R Mogale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2014 at 1:18am
Lovely project, great work.
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_djk_ View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 November 2004
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2014 at 8:28am
Thanks!
djk
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