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'burst' power for torroidal amps?

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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2009 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by fredos666 fredos666 wrote:

 

-Burst power is nearly the same value of RMS power


 


The problem lies when companies use Burst Signals and don't state the continuous average power using either sine wave or pink noise. Bursts are short-term pulses, which make the amplifier deliver more wattage under those conditions.

 

Crown offered Burst signals since 1968. However, they offered continuous average power as well.

 

Best Regards,


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredos666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2009 at 12:58pm
The industrie standard burst signal is normaly 1/3 of time full power sine wave signal and 2/3 no signal period. Other type of signal should not be considered as burst signal. A signal with 1 minute full power sine wave and 2 minute no signal, repeated for long time is a burst signal. A signal with 1ms full power sine wave and 2 ms no signal, reapeted too is a burst. Any other combinaison, ie withe noise, pink noise, 1/4, 1/8, is not a standard burst signal. That's why a burst signal have nearly the same value as RMS Power measurement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2009 at 5:47pm

Burst signals are always higher than continuous average power by a good margin.

Here is one example.

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=30&cat=8&id=19

At 4 ohms per channel the amplifier offers 2.5 dB difference when comparing continuous average power versus burst.

Here is another example,

http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/itech.htm

The values are not nearly the same.

Best Regards,

Edited by Elliot Thompson - 10 May 2009 at 5:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredos666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 1:55pm
When I bench power amp, I nearly have always the same measure....Maybe they dont really use 1/3 burst to do theses measurements. If you have acces to a bench, do it, I will send you the wave I use to bench amp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:07pm
the meaning of Burst power is so the amp maker can claim More Watts of power.
the higher the rating the more money they can get for it.
LOLLOL

this is simple.
2 amplifiers identical same capacitors,same output transistors,same heat sinks,same running "off load voltage"
However on amp has 1 kva transformer the other has a 500va transformer.LOL
in effect one amp can supply twice the power of the other.Thumbs Down
so the difference is cost.
both amps will produce the same burst power.Clown
both amps will sound similar.Clap
one will not lastEvil Smile
and one will be CrCensored in demanding applications.
and one will make them Much more moneyLOL
when you fill your care up in the UK just hope you get the right amount of petrol.
Cry
BURST POWER IS AMSTRAD POWER  TS30 tower power from the 80's LOL




 

LOL
a wise man changes his mind a fool does not.
http://www.matrixamplification.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:18pm
Wouldent the amp with the bigger supply give more output though with bursts though, espechally in to low impeadances?  Am i correct in thinking the one with smaller supply will go into clip earlyer when you try and put some heavey bass into it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:22pm

Thank you fredos666 for the offer. I have devices that can create waves and pulses. I was merely showing you how the wattage figures differ amongst the two in which, can lead to false assumptions. At least, Crown and Yorkville gives the user a guideline on what to expect under long-term conditions. However, those who don’t and, choose to offer a 10-millisecond burst, can have the amplifier offering twice the amount of power in which the user will assume it is continuous average power.



Best Regards,


Edited by Elliot Thompson - 11 May 2009 at 3:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:23pm

Ha ha, so sad you actually remembered the model number of an Amstrad tower hi-Fi.

Nice reply Sir, but a bit too honest for a Monday morning don't you think.
 
Tell them what they want to hear, which is that more expensive is always better and they will suck ya knob and balls.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbl_man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:24pm
"BURST POWER IS AMSTRAD POWER"
LOL
Have a old Amstrad manual somewhere for an Integra 4000 amp,Andy is absolutely right,it quotes RMS as 2x12w..burst power is 80w!
 
Edit...in this case,i think "burst" power refers to the point at which it bursts apart.


Edited by jbl_man - 11 May 2009 at 3:58pm
Be seeing you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 3:44pm


Here is something to think about Timebomb.


I have a few Crown Powerbase 3's that can give a burst of 1575 watts @ 4 ohms using 1 kHz tone with 0.05% THD. However, within 40 milliseconds it stabilises to 815 watts using a 1 kHz tone @ 0.05% THD. The continuous average power is 720 watts @ 1 kHz with 0.05% THD.

In 1997 it was marketed as a 1500 watt amplifier. In 2009 it could be labeled as a 3000 watt amplifier.

My apologies 3200 watts.

Best Regards,




Edited by Elliot Thompson - 11 May 2009 at 3:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Wouldent the amp with the bigger supply give more output though with bursts though, espechally in to low impeadances? 


Not if they have the same supply rail voltage. The one with the smaller supply would "sag" (ooh er missus) before the larger supply.

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Wouldent the amp with the bigger supply give more output though with bursts though, espechally in to low impeadances? 


Not if they have the same supply rail voltage. The one with the smaller supply would "sag" (ooh er missus) before the larger supply.

Tony


Thats assuming the rail voltage dosent "sag" under burst tests, wich it might, well proberbly will, depending on the tests  If the one with the smaller supply sags sooner, then the one with the big supply will have more output. 

Is it me or has the forum gone a bit fruity today?  "ohh err missus, minging trasvestites, gay kebab shops....
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