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"Camco Vortex 6" Vs "Lab FP6400"

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B.A.M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B.A.M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Camco Vortex 6" Vs "Lab FP6400"
    Posted: 13 January 2013 at 12:54pm
Hey Speakerplans,

I am currently in a cross roads, I can get two of each amp for roughly the same price - second hand of course - and it would be much appreciated to have your insight and knowledge on the subject.

Vortex 6 : http://www.camcoaudio.com/Vortex.html - Class H


The intended application for these amps was to power Lab Horns, 2 per channel.

Each have an output just below the required 3400W @ 2 ohms per ch. to fully power the 4 x Eminence Lab 12 per channel.

Thanks,
Beinn


Edited by B.A.M - 13 January 2013 at 1:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:00pm
Was told a Crown Macrotech MA5000VZ powers 2x Labs per channel better than an FP6400.

So if considering lightweight, you may need to be looking at something bigger.

My rule of thumb, regarding lightweight power ratings spec'd at 1khz,  is to realistically expect 66% of that power,  when using it on sub.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B.A.M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:27pm
MA5000VZ is rated at 2500W @ 2ohms at 1kHz, kind of why I over looked it ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by B.A.M B.A.M wrote:

MA5000VZ is rated at 2500W @ 2ohms at 1kHz, kind of why I over looked it ?


To not ignite old issues, just suggesting larger lightweight than FP6400.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 2:24pm
Lab12 driver is 6 ohm, that gives a total impedance of one Labsusb of 3 ohms. Two parallel boxes will be 1.5 ohm.
What i am trying to say is you can not drive two boxes per channel safely with any amp.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 2:42pm
i think people with powersoft amps that tell you the impedence as they see it, have said a lab actually shows as about 6 ohms per cab... i think..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tall_mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lab12 driver is 6 ohm, that gives a total impedance of one Labsusb of 3 ohms. Two parallel boxes will be 1.5 ohm.
What i am trying to say is you can not drive two boxes per channel safely with any amp.




Have you actually measured the DC resistance of a lab driver? I doubt it actually measures 3 ohms dead on.

You could run two labs off an FP6400 all day long, or a 5000. Provided they're in good condition!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knet94 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lab12 driver is 6 ohm, that gives a total impedance of one Labsusb of 3 ohms. Two parallel boxes will be 1.5 ohm.
What i am trying to say is you can not drive two boxes per channel safely with any amp.



Certainly didn't have a problem doing this with an Infinite 8 Mk2 for about 6 hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by knet94 knet94 wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lab12 driver is 6 ohm, that gives a total impedance of one Labsusb of 3 ohms. Two parallel boxes will be 1.5 ohm.
What i am trying to say is you can not drive two boxes per channel safely with any amp.



Certainly didn't have a problem doing this with an Infinite 8 Mk2 for about 6 hours.


But then again, Inf8Mk2 can slap 2x Turbomax 1500s per channel into oblivion, where as that same load will make many amps thermal..

Basically, quality, name brand, big lightweights for serious jobs. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lab12 driver is 6 ohm, that gives a total impedance of one Labsusb of 3 ohms. Two parallel boxes will be 1.5 ohm.
What i am trying to say is you can not drive two boxes per channel safely with any amp.
 
I haven't measured one, but I was given to understand from Tom Danley's posts on PSW when it was being designed that the added impedance from the horn loading brings the average impedance within the passband pretty close to 4Ω per box.
Cheers,
David.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dref Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 3:55pm
How many labhorns will you be using in a stack?

The problem is that the labhorn has quite a large impedance minimum in the all important 38-45 Hz range. This will level out as the stack of horns get bigger, but with a stack of two labhorns in parallel, with drivers in parallel, the impedance at 40 Hz is below 1,2 ohm according to Hornresp. 

That said, you are using the program power of your lab drivers (3200 watt for 4 drivers) to choose your amp. I don't know how the power compression figure are for these drivers but I would imagine that it gets above 3db when you are approaching program power levels. This means that they will probably have twice the predicted impedance when you get to the point where the amplifiers theoretically should have started to run out of amperes. And therefore the problem will not be as severe as predicted. 

The low impedance can explain why an amplifier like the MA5000 actually does a better job than you would expect, because it tolerates the very low impedance better.
I don't have practical experience with these two amplifiers, but go for the one which is know to be the best performer at very low impedance, if you intent to keep running everything in parallel. And very thick cables! Wink


Edited by Dref - 13 January 2013 at 4:05pm
A proper build subwoofer will be the only thing in a room that is not shaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2013 at 4:43pm
Get a Powersoft K10 instead of those if you want real low frequency response.

MA series are nowhere near in damping or pulse response.
MA5000 let the sub membranes out of control floating, looses control above half amplitude of output.



Edited by U.Viktor - 13 January 2013 at 4:45pm
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