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Complete newbie looking to build a small sound

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Mikkel View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 12:55pm
Basically you wanna be looking for an amp that puts out approx 2400w per channel @ 4ohm (2x 8ohm drivers per ch) for sufficient headroom.


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darkmatter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote darkmatter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2017 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by particle-jim particle-jim wrote:

Ok just so I'm clear, do I need to add the wattage of the speakers together to work out what amp I need, for example 4 600w speakers would total 2400 so do I need an amp comfortably above 2400w or do I just go based on the 600w and look for an amp at around 1200w? I think I get what your saying but I'm not sure if I need the combined wattage of all the speakers... sorry if I'm a bit slow on the uptake here lol

Because it's complicated, it's best if you understand the concepts yourself. Look into:

- Duty cycle of different forms of music. For most music the duty cycle of the bass will be higher than the duty cycle of the treble.

- The difference between peak (/burst) and RMS power ratings for amplifiers. Remember some amps can translate the power from the wall continuously, others can only release short bursts of maximum power and will then ramp down once the energy stores are exhausted.

- The drivers are rated using their nominal impedance. However, this does not represent the reality in terms of the actual resistance seen by the amplifier. At some frequencies, impedance will be higher, at some it will be lower. You need to know the actual impedance of the driver in its cabinet (since the acoustic impedance also has an impact) and at the frequency range in question in order to be able to accurately assess amplifier requirements.

- You'll need to know whether the speakers are wired in series or parallel, the impedance of the drivers, and the power rating of the amp at that nominal impedance in order to be able to determine power required. As a basic example, if an amp provides 1200 watts per channel RMS at 4 ohms, and you connect two 8 ohm drivers to each channel and wire them in parallel, and those drivers are rated at 600W RMS each, then you'll supposedly have no headroom. This ignores the reality that the real impedance is frequency and cabinet dependent, however it provides a simplified view that is useful when evaluating ideas.

p.s. to get maximum help from this thread, you'll probably want to find out and let people know which makes of driver you can get cheaply (or second hand) in Mexico, since this forum is generally UK/Europe focused. Maybe Eminence?


Edited by darkmatter - 21 June 2017 at 1:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mstep77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2017 at 12:13pm
What's your budget?
Typical size of crowd?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote particle-jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2017 at 11:49pm
Shoestring budget, given the exchange rate I earn about £90 a week hahaha
Crowd size would be around 150 max, the most commonly used venue here is open-air but still pretty small
I have an idea for the design, 2 G subs and 2 X12's, just need to figure out what drivers and amps I can get for a little as possible without having to compromise too much on quality, most decent big name 18" drivers (fane, b&c, eminence etc) are like 2 weeks wages if I buy them new, there are some lesser known brands out here in mexico that I'm considering investigating as they're a bit cheaper but I don't know if it would be best just to save up and go for a more known brand, then in terms of amps I need to try and find the most power for least money available

Edited by particle-jim - 25 June 2017 at 12:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2017 at 11:53am
Are the theile small (t/s) parameters available for these other speakers so you can compare them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote particle-jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2017 at 11:04pm
Not sure tbh, will have to look into that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2017 at 11:16pm
Not meaning to be a killjoy but I struggle to see how hogs fit into a shoestring budget. I'd value 2 loaded in birch ply at around £1300. And that's a reasonable price I'd say. Quite a lot of ply in them.

Edit...just spotted, g subs may be better suited to a tight budget. Just 150 people tham15's and tops might do it.

Edited by SouthwestCNC - 24 June 2017 at 11:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cookie-dj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2017 at 7:52am
2x G Sub and 2x X12 is a lot of drivers for a small budget. That's 10x drivers in total!
You can't polish a turd!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2017 at 11:51am
Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

I'd value 2 loaded in birch ply at around £1300. And that's a reasonable price I'd say.



Really... 5 sheets of ply go for, what circa 300 quid these days? plus glue and screws, 30? paint optional on shoestring budget. where on earth is 1300 quid a reasonable price for two hog scoops? unless he loads them with a grands worth of drivers!

To the OP - Id say if you found a decent deal on your drivers for them you could do them around £300/350 a piece. even cheaper in mdf (would be silly heavy tho). Dunno what the prices are like on the various things over there in mexico but considering your near the US you've got at least eminence.

Maybe try PM'ing DJK on here since he lives over the pond and may have some suggestions on cheap drivers and the like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2017 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:



Maybe try PM'ing DJK on here since he lives over the pond and may have some suggestions on cheap drivers and the like.


+100!!!

Also, go on diyaudio.com, lots more folks from Americas over there. They can also point you to the best bang for bucks drivers on partsexpress!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2017 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

I'd value 2 loaded in birch ply at around £1300. And that's a reasonable price I'd say.



Really... 5 sheets of ply go for, what circa 300 quid these days? plus glue and screws, 30? paint optional on shoestring budget. where on earth is 1300 quid a reasonable price for two hog scoops? unless he loads them with a grands worth of drivers!

To the OP - Id say if you found a decent deal on your drivers for them you could do them around £300/350 a piece. even cheaper in mdf (would be silly heavy tho). Dunno what the prices are like on the various things over there in mexico but considering your near the US you've got at least eminence.

Maybe try PM'ing DJK on here since he lives over the pond and may have some suggestions on cheap drivers and the like.


Ply is around £60 per sheet. £300 + wheels £60 paint £35-40 cable £5 screws £5 nuts n bolts £15 glue £5 drivers around £480. Grills £25 grill fixing kits £15 Total £945. And that's not including the consumables like rollers, filler, drill n router bits, sander belts/paper. And factor in your own time @ £1300 that's £355 which is a bargain! (15 hours start to finish... good luck!) Easily worth in excess of £1300. Unless you cut corners and your woodwork is not up to scratch.

Edited by SouthwestCNC - 25 June 2017 at 8:58pm
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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2017 at 10:15pm
In my opinion you don't need wheels, paint, grills and whatever else if on a tight budget like the OP wants and the price of drivers are relative, can get 2nd hand drivers @ 120 each or 240 brand new. And come on i know we value our time but what is factoring in your own time exactly? you don't charge yourself for building your own speakers.

I don't want to sound like im having a go but sweeping statements like your previous one gives the wrong idea. It CAN be as expensive as your saying but it CAN also be done much cheaper.
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