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Cones vs Compression
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Anna Recksiek View Drop Down
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Points: 41 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anna Recksiek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2010 at 11:16pm

p audio has always been a good product



Edited by Anna Recksiek - 24 February 2010 at 11:19pm
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Points: 919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben_Lawrance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 1:50am
Just to chuck my pennies in the jar, i would like to say that my mid/tops have an EV DH1A 2" compression driver x'd-over at 1.6KHz.

There is little eq in the Omnidrive and i think they sound so sweet. Hopefully Ceharden will back me up as he knows the boxes in question.
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Points: 976 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArthurG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 5:02am
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Metal diaphragms tend to ring, paper cones tend dampen themselves better.  Mylar is a good alternative, the BMS drivers use polyester, very tight transient response, dosent quite have the HF extension of a titanium diaphragm though.  B&C do a paper coned compression driver, i think this is what FK1 are using in the res 1.
 
FK1 uses a very special custom made driver manufactured by FANE which is a far cousin of Studio 5 FR
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Points: 976 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArthurG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 5:04am
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Radian's aluminium comps are lovely
 
Beyma's polyester ones work too
+1000
Heat treated Aluminum diaphragms sounds very smooth
For Beyma, I like the sound of the new CD10 high tech polymer dome. A good step in the right direction
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Points: 976 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArthurG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 5:06am
Originally posted by cilla.scope cilla.scope wrote:

 Hehehe :) .. well you know, just saying .. trouble with class D is there are so many design options ... 

Lets take a *completely*  hypothetical design scenario :)

 their are 4 real areas to consider in a class D amp,
1) PSU
2) switching speed
3) output topology
4) output filter

the rest is failry standard control and protection that anyone who has designed amps or servo drives will be familiar with.
Sorry,  but when you see the high failure rate of big power switching amps, this is the area of R&D people must focus now before thinking of already moving into more complex topologies... 
actually protections and reliability is the weakest point of these new monster switching amps and for example, I know a certain famous model with 80% failure rate in the field !!!  

Originally posted by cilla.scope cilla.scope wrote:

big switchmode PSU is a failry mature technology theses days, it shouldnt cause too many issues
again, I disagree. SMPS is the weakest point of any switching amps as they are never enough powerful to keep up with the output stage (except some very few models like the ones from Andy). The proof is that usually, SMPS is only half, 1/3 or even 1/4 of the output stage power !!!
And it's even more difficult when you have to make it with a PFC !!! Not an easy task at all to design a good reliable 8kw RMS SMPS with PFC. If it was so simple, all Chinese copycats will be king of the market now...
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Points: 536 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyndon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 1:25pm
We use 6" Ciare driver then Selenium 1" that has a phenolic diagphram, sound quality is superb.
FSV Sounds
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Points: 2425 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkmatter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2010 at 3:11pm
"but when you see the high failure rate of big power switching amps, this is the area of R&D people must focus now before thinking of already moving into more complex topologies... "
 
Completely agree. I'd guess that the current crop of Class D amps will only truly mature when the individual series/models mature. Seems there is such a high part count for some of these products and some very careful balancing acts in terms of planning tight tolerances, avoiding circuit resonances etc. that until experience shows where the weakest links are in a paticular circuit, reliability levels won't approach class A/B or G/H levels.
 
I've heard of manufacturers having to test individual parts to check where in the tolerance range they lie, and only using a certain set of parts together to avoid resonances etc., rather than throwing in a high quality tight tolerance part and knowing it'll work. That's sure to cause headaches for designers and repairers and will spell danger in terms of reliability.
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Points: 585 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haymere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:14pm
slightly ot but cannot find anyone that does horn manifolds like 2 or 4 1 inch comps onto a horn
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P-Audio
djk
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Points: 1719 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nitz V1505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2010 at 9:03am
Could it be certain amps & compression drivers sound good together whilst others combos can sound harsh? CD's are generaly high spl low wattage affairs and it may be the case people are overpowering them. At the right x-over frequency and with the right amp combination I think CD's are fine and have good long throw capability.
LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER
& THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING.....
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Points: 555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Safetyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2010 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Originally posted by cilla.scope cilla.scope wrote:

Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Originally posted by cilla.scope cilla.scope wrote:

 
out they pop with a 4 x 6K in a 3U box ... Wink
LOL
 
oh jeez
 


Hehehe :) .. well you know, just saying .. trouble with class D is there are so many design options ...

Lets take a *completely*  hypothetical design scenario :)

 their are 4 real areas to consider in a class D amp,
1) PSU
2) switching speed
3) output topology
4) output filter

the rest is failry standard control and protection that anyone who has designed amps or servo drives will be familiar with.

big switchmode PSU is a failry mature technology theses days, it shouldnt cause too many issues

switching speed is coming up, new devices around that are faster and more efficient .. this means things are gettign smaller!

output topology is a big area ... so many to choose from .. my fave though is grounded bridge ... you take a standar "full bridge" driver , and ground one side, then let the psu float up and down. The downside is you need 1 psu per channel, but it has other benefits ... its still bridgeable, you don't get rail pumping like you do in half-bridge designs.

Having 1 psu per channel means it is sensible to build the channels as "blocks" ... drop 2 into a case and voila .. a 12K ...  drop 4 into a case and .. there you go .. a 4x6K .. bridgeable as 2 x 12K

now ... heres the thing .. if you put a pair of 6K modules in a 2U case, they dont quite fill it vertically .. but they pretty much fill the floor area ... basically, each module ends up being half a rack wide ...   you cant just stand them edge on and put 4 in a box, as the box ends up too tall, and you dont cover all the floor ... so what to do .. one idea was to effectively folding them in half ... PSU on one side, amp on the other in a box 3U high, and 1/4 of a rack wide ... when in 4 channel mode, and 2U high and 1/2 a rack wide with the PSU and amp side-by-side in 2 channel mode .. but that would have meant different modules for 2 and 4 channel amps ..  so on to plan B

Plan B is to make the module 1/2 a rack wide and sort of L shaped in section .. half od i 2 U high (with the caps and Big Stuff in it ... half of it 1U high with the "other bits" ... in 2 channel mode, you get 2 modules on the bottom of the amp, in 4 channel mode you get 2 on the bottom, 2 on the top ... with the 2 U bots of the upper amps sitting over the 1U bits of the lower amps giving a total of 3U ..  all the connectors  could be mounted on the modules themselves .. picking up their audio inputs from the front panel, which has the DSP and volume controls.

The big advantage of this is that you can make 4 or 2 channel units up from the same modules, plus, by building 2K, 4K and 6K modules in the same footprint, give people a "mix and match" solution .. and if you just fill your racks with 6K units, and have a failure, it allows you to swap out modules rather than whole amps ..

Of course this is totally hypothetical ... I've not seen any solidworks modles for this, and the metalworker up the road hasnt just delivered half a dozen module boxes and the 2 channel case. That would be just crazy talk LOL

How Odd you'd be talking about doing it... and at the same time Andy is talking about it.... so you DON'T know Andy and he Doesn't know you???? lol
 
Will this 'amp' have a 63a plug on the back! LOL
 
You've got a fair way to go, Mike, keep plugging away

....twin 32 amp Powecons with 10 mm cable in the workshop.....!Shocked
Protect your hearing, and feel the music.



MU South East Roving Safety Rep.
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Safetyman View Drop Down
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Points: 555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Safetyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 March 2010 at 5:14pm
I asked a Brit manufacturer what was the difference between point source and line array last year. They gave the answer that( the system we were standing next to at the time in the warehouse ) whereas point source only required one top/top/mid @ £ 3,000 each, line array required 3 of these + a load of extra electronics to split the frequencies for a lot more profit !!

All depends, in my book, whether you like a 'wall of sound' or a better sound coming from one point ?
I have not yet heard a line array that sounds half decent, as compared to a point source and none better than Tony's super tweeter in the Resolution series that took decades to develop, over compression drivers( mentioned earlier in this thread ). I am not that technically minded, but I can hear the difference. Maybe, if I had been brought up with line array, that I would prefer it ?
Cheers.
Protect your hearing, and feel the music.



MU South East Roving Safety Rep.
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