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Cubo 15 Vs JBL EON 618s

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jack.bergquist23 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 July 2021 at 12:08am
Hi All, 

Very newbie question here but wondering if someone can allay some concerns / provide some insight. 

I recently finished work on 2 x Cubo15 extended boxes running Eminence Kappa Pro LF-2 drivers. Each box is being driven from a single channel from a Lab2002 amplifier. 

I had a little test play with them out at a rented place out in the sticks, they were running alongside a pair of Soundgear Orbit 4's all being controlled via a Driverack PA2. 

As the weather was appalling (winter here in NZ atm), I couldn't get outside as I'd hoped to take some measurements or really go through much proper set up / play around. As such I defaulted to the following set up:

(subs) = HPF 38hz LWR 12db/octave; LPF 110hz LWR 24db/oct
Tops (Low mid) = HPF 110hz  LWR 24db/oct 
Tops (high mid / high) = recommended settings 
Ran something like a 2.46ms delay on the low mids and a bit further on the high mids. This was done by ear and appeared to provide the loudest response given the relative speaker placements (again didn't have much playing around time). 

Previous to competing this build I did run a small indoor event (15m x 25m space) where I rented a couple of JBL EON 618's to support the Orbit 4s. For that event I used the PA2 for the Orbits, and ran an unfiltered channel out to the JBL subs to use their amp processing. 

What I noticed was a vast difference in low end response between the two sub designs, the JBLs were receiving the same visual gain output on the same mixer as I was running on the Cubo's however, even with the gain attenuator almost off they still rattled everything in the building I was in and comfortably supported a party of 200 people. However, the Cubo's seems to really struggle in a relatively small house with just 8 of us of there. Again this is subjective without any measurements, but the Cubo's did seem to provide a cleaner sound higher up in the frequency range but just didn't seem to offer much low end. Looking at the rated specs of both boxes they seem to be fairly similar with tuning from around 40hz up.  

While I do hope to find some clear weather and a suitable space to get some readings, and hopefully be able to push the Cubo's a little more, I suppose I was a little disappointed at first run on the Cubo's and am wondering if this lack in depth is a setting issue, a poor driver selection or a broader issue from the box design? Appreciate the Cubo is a much smaller box, which was a driver to the build as I'm typically moving this stuff around on my own and splitting things between cars etc. to get them places. However, I suppose I was angling to get a little more "womp" out of the cubo's than appeared to be the case. 

Any initial tips on things I should consider tweaking or considering? I'd offered to support a friends event in a couple of months but am now feeling a tad tentative around whether my current set up will really cut the mustard or if we should factor in renting some additional low end. If I can get the Cubo's running well, my mid term aim is to build another pair. I also have a pair of cubo kicks cut & ready to assemble when I get some free time, although I don't see these having much impact on this issue. 

Cheers

Jack 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 12:17am
Cubo 15 doesnt go boom. They thump.

I did some Cubo215 years ago. PD loaded.
I ran them with 2kw each, and they rattled everything that wasnt glued or bolted down. 

Massive output with a chest thumping kick. But you dont get much lowend from them. 

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jack.bergquist23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack.bergquist23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 2:25am
Cheers for the feedback, yes it's certainly a different bass sound from many of the boxes I've heard in the past - more musical than just a wobbly thump. 

Do you think adding another pair of them would help a bit more in the lower range though? Perhaps that's a sensible solution. 

Also, any thoughts on the HPF I was using for the sub channel, I can't seem to find any clear guidance on this and which slope I should aim for. First attempt was with an LWR 24 set to 40hz but this really decimated any low end at all. Obviously want to avoid damaging the driver though. For reference this set up will only really be used for DJing not live music, mainly DnB, house and techno. 

Cheers

Jack 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 2:58am
Originally posted by jack.bergquist23 jack.bergquist23 wrote:

What I noticed was a vast difference in low end response between the two sub designs, the Cubo's seems to really struggle in a relatively small house 
Just how small?

Room nodes totally dominate bass and sub bass response in small rooms so it's almost impossible to make an informed decision about a sub in these spaces. The EON 618s is nothing special so even though the Kappa Pro15Lf is far from the baddest driver you could use the Cubo should easly outperform the JBL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote partya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 3:33am
Cubo's aren't a sub as such, more for kick.....

Conversely, those JBL EONs are a big unwieldy box and are pretty unreliable. I'm in Wellington and know of 3 whose amplifier boards have given up. No more spare parts left in the country according to the JBL agent..... The 612s and 615s are similarly reliable!
Turn it up! Turn what up?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack.bergquist23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 3:55am
It was probably 5-6m wide but it had a partially vaulted ceiling with a mezzanine bedroom above . Length ways, it was maybe 10m long but then stepped into an additional 3m section up a few stairs (if that holds any relevance). 

Subs were placed slightly off centre, with both boxes together and the 3 way tops on stands equidistant from the subs. 

While I've heard many rigs over the years, being the first thing I've put together myself my spread of comparisons are pretty limited to the JBL's as I know how I had them set up. But I had hoped that these would at least broadly compete with an off-the-shelf around that price point. 

Does sound like as a next step I need to find some dry weather and some open space to get a clean response curve mapped and maybe confirm nothing odd is going on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack.bergquist23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 4:30am
Originally posted by partya partya wrote:

Cubo's aren't a sub as such, more for kick.....

Conversely, those JBL EONs are a big unwieldy box and are pretty unreliable. I'm in Wellington and know of 3 whose amplifier boards have given up. No more spare parts left in the country according to the JBL agent..... The 612s and 615s are similarly reliable!

My understanding from the build specs & other users records of their build & output that they should be capable of providing some decent and usable low end 40-100/110hz. I've got a set of the kick boxes cut and ready to go as well to help fill in 100-220 (ish) where i was advised by James @ Soundgear the Neo low/mid drivers on the Orbit 4's really pick up. 

Appreciate they'll never run as low & loud as a scoop or a paraflex box (would've loved to go down the paraflex route but it looked like a much more complex build for a first time with limited tools & 0 wood working experience and certainly no off-the-shelf driver options to be had in NZ). 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 11:56am
The first thing I would check is are the speakers and cables all correctly wired.Having the two bass drivers going in different directions could definitely do what you describe.Also have a look at the input sensitivity and gain switches on the lab amp.The Lab could be set to need another 10dBb from the mixer to give the same output as the JBL subs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2021 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by jack.bergquist23 jack.bergquist23 wrote:

My understanding from the build specs & other users records of their build & output that they should be capable of providing some decent and usable low end 40-100/110hz. 

I built and measured a Cubo15 extended and it had upwards of 6dB more output than an 18" reflex sub at the same drive level.. and the same lowend extension. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack.bergquist23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2021 at 4:57am
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by jack.bergquist23 jack.bergquist23 wrote:

My understanding from the build specs & other users records of their build & output that they should be capable of providing some decent and usable low end 40-100/110hz. 

I built and measured a Cubo15 extended and it had upwards of 6dB more output than an 18" reflex sub at the same drive level.. and the same lowend extension. 

Thanks that's definitely promising to hear! Hopefully I've got a free weekend next week so if the weather gods are kind I might give things a go in the garden - figure if I fire it out across the park I should minimise upsetting too many people ;-P. Least that way I can remove any (major) room effects from the equation, plus I'm keen to make sure I got the delay in the right spot in-case that was causing some problems too. My external soundcard should arrive next week too so perhaps I can get some rough measurements (don't have the space to do a full 1m 3m 10m plot and i'll probably have some issues with the proximity of the house but might be a start just to make sure nothing really odd is occurring). 


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