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Cvr d-2004

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RoadRunnersDust View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2022 at 4:56pm
Without being physically larger (2U) the four channel version is always going to have fewer components per channel than a two channel version of the same size
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Line Array Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2022 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

another strange thing about these amps is that the four channel versions have far fewer capacitors than the two channel ones. for example the d-2002 has 38 caps per output channel whereas the d-2004 has only 12. but the spec sheet says they have exactly the same output per channel.

why is that strange? it's a chinese amp. they do everything just for looks.  they just fill the space with capacitors for aesthetic purposes.  i'm surprised they are even connected to the PCB.

and even on decent amps when they start to fill up with components compromises will occur.  like the 8 channel QSC CX has some power devices just hanging in the mid-air with no heatsink because they ran out of space.

there is a Russian saying that basically translates as "a greedy person pays twice"

of course to get a completely empty box like a Crown XLS is also questionable.

i am a big believer in the golden middle.


Edited by Line Array - 19 April 2022 at 11:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2022 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

it's a chinese amp. they do everything just for looks.  they just fill the space with capacitors for aesthetic purposes.


Cite your sources? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2022 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

Without being physically larger (2U) the four channel version is always going to have fewer components per channel than a two channel version of the same size


the 4 channel version is 10cm deeper and 12kg rather than 9kg. so bigger but nowhere near twice as big.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 9:43am
I just can't believe, in 2022, some people still accept  Chinese lightweight amplifier output specs.

I guess not everyone has learned the painful lesson yet, "Buy cheap, buy twice".


Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 10:55am
Don’t think anyone here is under that illusion, Lev?

The days of reasonable Chinese amps being closer to 1/4 of their stated output is fading though with the advancement in tech, the low costs that entails and lashings of Chinese morality.

Reliability compared to the alternative of 100+KG racks of old copper-iron beasts is also nowhere near as polarised as it was as time goes on either (though I would say that I’ve heard a LOT about CVRs in particular going bang compared to the SAEs, etc.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 11:48am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

I just can't believe, in 2022, some people still accept  Chinese lightweight amplifier output specs.

I guess not everyone has learned the painful lesson yet, "Buy cheap, buy twice".




not sure who you are talking to.

"spec sheets may be complete bs so would love to get them tested. we seem to have a few different models in the UK between us- is anyone willing to provide test equipment?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lucasdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 1:13pm
It's not so much the actual power being less than the claimed that bothers me about faceless Chinese manufacturing. You can probably factor that in and still be ahead in terms of price. What concerns me is the reliability of components more than design. 
  It's no secret that the Chinese are happy to copy other designs, and they are getting better at it all the time. However, if a factory produces the same product under different "Brands", they are much less likely to be concerned with protecting a reputation. "Buy cheap, buy twice" is fair enough if the product in question is less than half the price of a named amp, but if failure damages your own reputation, or worse a 10k amp goes DC at the output and fries a load of decent drivers then it's another matter.


Edited by Lucasdude - 21 April 2022 at 1:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

It's not so much the actual power being less than the claimed that bothers me about faceless Chinese manufacturing. You can probably factor that in and still be ahead in terms of price. What concerns me is the reliability of components more than design. 
  It's no secret that the Chinese are happy to copy other designs, and they are getting better at it all the time. However, if a factory produces the same product under different "Brands", they are much less likely to be concerned with protecting a reputation. "Buy cheap, buy twice" is fair enough if the product in question is less than half the price of a named amp, but if failure damages your own reputation, or worse a 10k amp goes DC at the output and fries a load of decent drivers then it's another matter.


you can't generalise so much. some products are straight copies, some are superficially similar but have cheaper internals, others are improvements on 20+ year olds designs with modern components, and others are designed from scratch. some products are generic but others are from large companies which have a brand reputation. the standard of work and qc also varies considerably. many of the 'western' amps are also made in China, and if not will definitely use components from China or far east. Although the US still has some domestic semi-conductor manufacture there is virtually none in Europe.

Edited by snowflake - 21 April 2022 at 1:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucasdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 1:34pm
I agree, but where a "Western" amp made in China is more likely to use closer tolerance components and thus ensure more consistency and reliability, a Chinese manufacturer with no dealer network and simply a 12 month warranty to fulfil is less likely to use e.g. capacitors which are tested for close tolerance. If their "Brand" earns a rep for poor reliability, there is nothing stopping them from just marketing the same product under a different brand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

I agree, but where a "Western" amp made in China is more likely to use closer tolerance components and thus ensure more consistency and reliability, a Chinese manufacturer with no dealer network and simply a 12 month warranty to fulfil is less likely to use e.g. capacitors which are tested for close tolerance. If their "Brand" earns a rep for poor reliability, there is nothing stopping them from just marketing the same product under a different brand.


lack of dealer and repair network is a concern, as is short warranty period. buying from European companies you can get warranties from 3-5 years. the cvrs all seem to be modular with a power supply board and two output boards. I might send them a message claiming a broken channel and see if they are good for their promise to ship out replacement boards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 2:59pm
If the people interested in buying  these types of amps, generally understood, they won't even accomplish specs for mS, at 1khz, at any load, I'm sure less would be interested in buying.

That was my point.

I dont expect a Powersoft K20 to meets its specs, beyond ms peaks at 1khz, but it will do damn good job, of driving 2 ohm load stereo, when on decent power, reliably, if not in a tool's hands.

Stopped trying to understand, why people think they can get that power and reliability, for 5th of the price.
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