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Delay, phase and slopes

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scott_fury View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 June 2018 at 7:28am
Hi,

I have a small setup consisting of....

- Two 18” scoops run from 35 - 90hz
- Two reflex 15” kicks from 90 - 130hz
- A dual 12” reflex mid from 130 - 3.5khz
- Four APT80’s from 3.5khz up.

I have them in a lockup with no electric. I do not have access to a field with electrics, and usually only get a small window to tweak before setting, and usually where folk don’t appreciate me arsing about with pink noise or tone generators. I am setting up next weekend in a field that does have electric hook up and at a time before any punters get there so want to experiment with settings to establish the best setup.

 I’m currently trying to work out the correct delay and x/o slopes, and have searched and read as many posts as possible. I have a basic understanding but would like to clarify a couple of points...

1 - Should I treat the Fane scoops as reflex boxes and delay the rest of the system to them, without inverting the phase?

2 - I have been using Butterworth 24db slopes between each pass but the narrow bandwidth of the kicks, 90-130, results in a lower output. If I mix the filters will I create issues with phase and EQ, etc? I was thinking about using steeper 48db slopes on the kick bandwidth?

My understanding is very limited so any advice would be greatly received. Thanks!
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 12:08am
Scoops can't be time aligned so forget that and treat them as reflex, this means you don't need any delays. Use LR24 filters for crossover as they sum flat electrically, use BW filters for low cut if applicable.
I'd suggest raising the kick/mid crossover to 250hz or maybe even as high as 500hz, have a play with it in this range to see what you like.
24db(4th order) crossovers are a sweet spot, steep enough to provide good isolation but not so steep they generate ringing or really weird phase issues.
If your mids can do it also consider raising the mid/high crossover up to as much as 5khz, those super tweeters can get rough sounding if they are are not crossed high enough.
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scott_fury View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott_fury Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 11:02pm
Thanks for the reply Conanski. I have been treating the scoops as reflex, and because the boxes are stacked on top of each other, and driver magnets are sort of aligned, i’ve not been too bothered with delay. 

I did a bit of research into the APT’s and based on a few other posts bumped up the mid/high point to 5khz. I have previously run the kicks up to 250hz, but can’t quite recall why i’ve got them lower. 

Had it out last night with a bit of everything played through them, reggae, hip hop, house, jungle, funk.... and it sounded pretty tight. The APT’s add a nice amount of sparkle to tops.

One question, when using the LR24 filters, should I have a little overlap with the x/o points? What I mean is if I set the higher point of the kicks to 250hz, should I set the lower point of the miss to exactly 250hz, or should I go a little lower, to lose any dips between the two slopes, if that makes sense?
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2018 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by scott_fury scott_fury wrote:

One question, when using the LR24 filters, should I have a little overlap with the x/o points? What I mean is if I set the higher point of the kicks to 250hz, should I set the lower point of the miss to exactly 250hz, or should I go a little lower, to lose any dips between the two slopes, if that makes sense?


No you won't want overlap but you may need some underlap. This is where a measuring system comes in, cone drivers often have a rising response at the upper end that can make the acoustic crossover a little higher than the electronic, so for example it is possible the mids would need a low cut at 300hz to sum flat with the kicks at 250hz.


Edited by Conanski - 13 June 2018 at 3:16pm
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