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Topic ClosedDesigning a dance stack..

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bob4 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2017 at 3:04pm
The nagging issue here is that compared to the 70s stuff such as RLA etc, there is one bass cab too much in the concept. Either cross directly from flh sub to scoop, so that the scoop does both kick and mids, and then cross over to a big 2" comp on a giant horn, or have an all frontloaded stack with sub, kick, and mid, then again comp. It's either scoop or flh, both simultaneously dont make sense in one stack
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2017 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

The nagging issue here is that compared to the 70s stuff such as RLA etc, there is one bass cab too much in the concept. Either cross directly from flh sub to scoop, so that the scoop does both kick and mids, and then cross over to a big 2" comp on a giant horn, or have an all frontloaded stack with sub, kick, and mid, then again comp. It's either scoop or flh, both simultaneously dont make sense in one stack


There isn't though. RLA stacks used 'scoops' or rearloaded horns for their low/mid section up to the lens. Even the Pioneer GS Wave uses one.

Edited by toastyghost - 17 September 2017 at 4:14pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2017 at 4:35pm
I used to work (very shortly) for a company that makes stuff out of plastic (small containers, outdoor roadside ads etc) that could possibly make custom horns which was also one idea (similar to those found in Funktion One tops)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2017 at 5:15pm
Scoops on kick? Yuck lol
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2017 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

 
There isn't though. RLA stacks used 'scoops' or rearloaded horns for their low/mid section up to the lens. Even the Pioneer GS Wave uses one.

Two pics in Irie Lions thread about the old MOS rig illustrates my point:

https://forum.speakerplans.com/ex-mos-rig-restoration-project_topic74926_page33.html






two-way bass, then a front loaded mid horn. Not three different bass cab designs in the same stack, as imagined in the OPs "design"



Edited by bob4 - 17 September 2017 at 9:41pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2017 at 10:02am
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

 
There isn't though. RLA stacks used 'scoops' or rearloaded horns for their low/mid section up to the lens. Even the Pioneer GS Wave uses one.

Two pics in Irie Lions thread about the old MOS rig illustrates my point:


two-way bass, then a front loaded mid horn. Not three different bass cab designs in the same stack, as imagined in the OPs "design"


Hmm.. what about feeding, for example, a subharmonic synthesis signal to the very low end and let the 186's take care of the original signal?

Waste of space and amp power probably but at least it'd look impressive.

P.S : crossover purists; don't bother commenting.. seeing that it requires a lot of dsp knowhow and analytics (in the processor), in my opinion dbx made a good job at engineering an adequate subharmonics synthesizer in their Driverack (I just noticed they even have a standalone version available)

EDIT : I talked one evening with a guy who does PA on the regular and we had a discussion about 6,5" versus 8" for a midtop if such was needed.. 


Edited by efinque - 18 September 2017 at 10:05am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2017 at 11:54am
oh dear…… you don't need a subharmonic synth. It should never be a consideration in the PA system design. IF, and that's a HUUUUGE IF, your music is lacking in the bass department enough, and you know EXACTLY what you're doing, then maybe, in some specialized application there might be a justified case for a subharmonic synth, on the source/mixing/processing/ARTISTIC side of things, before the stereo sum goes to the system processor. 

The discussion about subharmonic synths pops up time and again, and the verdict from experienced people is don't bother.

I don't want to sound arrogant or patronizing, I'm not bullying, but based on what you have written in this thread so far you have neither the experience nor the knowledge to design a dance stack from scratch. Your basic premises are wrong. Read A LOT more, here, DIYaudio, lansingheritage, wherever….. but you need to investigate more, knowledge is key. 


EDIT: while we're at it. What is the purpose of this mental exercise? Are you ever going to build it? Do you intend to deploy it, if so where? etc etc…...


Edited by bob4 - 18 September 2017 at 11:55am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2017 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

oh dear…… you don't need a subharmonic synth. It should never be a consideration in the PA system design. IF, and that's a HUUUUGE IF, your music is lacking in the bass department enough, and you know EXACTLY what you're doing, then maybe, in some specialized application there might be a justified case for a subharmonic synth, on the source/mixing/processing/ARTISTIC side of things, before the stereo sum goes to the system processor. 

The discussion about subharmonic synths pops up time and again, and the verdict from experienced people is don't bother.

I don't want to sound arrogant or patronizing, I'm not bullying, but based on what you have written in this thread so far you have neither the experience nor the knowledge to design a dance stack from scratch. Your basic premises are wrong. Read A LOT more, here, DIYaudio, lansingheritage, wherever….. but you need to investigate more, knowledge is key. 


EDIT: while we're at it. What is the purpose of this mental exercise? Are you ever going to build it? Do you intend to deploy it, if so where? etc etc…...

Eh...

So far I've installed a venue system with main speakers and a separate zone, plus lights, and while it was a fun (and also a challenging) task, I sort of felt that I could do better than just install a bunch of off-the-shelf speakers and crossover those from the mixer.

One thing I didn't take into account was monitoring though... 

And yes I'd love to build a system, whether it's this or some other design. If it matters; I've thrown gigs with different systems (I've had 2 active dB tech rigs, formerly passive 15" Alto tops with a diy scoop etc)

To be honest, a dance stack is way oversized (for touring) and sort of outdated design-wise; you'll get the same volume with an active system half the size and the power but I believe it's worth it since it has certain sonic qualities and an unparalleled appearance.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2017 at 12:44pm
'Waste of space and amp power probably but at least it'd look impressive.'

  'an unparalleled appearance.'

If you are more concerned about what it looks like than sounds like, then you are in the wrong business my friend!  If you want looks,just buy a couple of old 4550's, plonk a whole heap of horns and lenses on top,will look amazing. Wink




Edited by jbl_man - 18 September 2017 at 1:19pm
Be seeing you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 September 2017 at 11:24am
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

'Waste of space and amp power probably but at least it'd look impressive.'

  'an unparalleled appearance.'

If you are more concerned about what it looks like than sounds like, then you are in the wrong business my friend!  If you want looks,just buy a couple of old 4550's, plonk a whole heap of horns and lenses on top,will look amazing. Wink

Having done a dozen or so of wedding gigs, I can't really imagine myself explaining the groom, bride and their parents that the overall look will be closer to an industrial warehouse (which would be acceptable at a rave setting)

But I do acknowledge that a professional system is in most cases (for many reasons) a compromise between the usual bulky stack of enclosures and fancy looks.


Edited by efinque - 27 September 2017 at 11:24am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2017 at 1:20pm
Sorry for posting twice in a row but here's the scanned version..


I have a partial BOM somewhere too...

EDIT : It'd probably make sense to drive the tweeter arrays from 5kHz up... like I said this is a highly conceptual plan. I calculated that the materials, drivers and amps for 2 stacks would set one back around 8,5k in EUR (incl. VAT)


Edited by efinque - 16 October 2017 at 2:44pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2017 at 3:13pm
Oh dear.........
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