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Topic ClosedDesigning a dance stack..

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bass*en*mass View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2017 at 7:04pm
efinque - despite those "scans" beeing barely readable or make any sense i`d hazard a guess that what you try to achieve is not far from beeing un-hireable to weddings anyways.. (if thats your main purpose..)

what you seem to try to achieve, even done well, is rather suitable to dance floors 500cap+, hence called dance stacks, literally.. for typical weddings 2-3 15/18" reflex subs and matching Tops (be it a single wide dispersion 212 reflex cab or fancy 2-4 "line array" Top per side is what is mainly used and suits its purpose well enough ;)

what exactly are you trying/thinking to achieve?




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2017 at 7:45pm
Efinique i think you need to say what you want to do with this stack.

Event style, venue size, number of people, music played.

Then those more knowledgeable than myself might make some suggestions for something suitable which will be more positive than just putting it the flaws in your plans.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2017 at 9:31pm
Eh.. it's just a dream. Perhaps for rental, fixed installation etc, I honestly don't know. I started a business in the industry last month though...

I do have to admit it's certainly not touring-friendly.

And none of the local venues (with regular nights) are able to house a stack this size, and I can't really afford to build one or find a good reason to do so anymore.













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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 12:09am
When you say "started a business in the industry", do you mean weddings or...? You must have a main income source for the business so maybe look at buildimg the inventory you need for that 'moneymaker' and look at other ideas later.

Ive heard plenty who do this professionally that their smaller, neater systems make far more money than massive rave stacks which might only go out 3/4/5 times a year.

But if you are set on building a stack maybe look at simple modular reflex boxes, pile em high and turn them on haha. Horns are complicated and difficult to setup.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 10:20am
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

When you say "started a business in the industry", do you mean weddings or...? You must have a main income source for the business so maybe look at buildimg the inventory you need for that 'moneymaker' and look at other ideas later.

No it's just a trade name so I can charge for my gigs and stuff.. I did do weddings in the past (for friends and acquaintances), not so much these days anymore. I did rent out a small mobile PA for a venue because they had some problems with their system (which I actually designed and installed)

Quote Ive heard plenty who do this professionally that their smaller, neater systems make far more money than massive rave stacks which might only go out 3/4/5 times a year.

Most bands will at some point invest in a PA... why shouldn't a DJ too? I've also once rented a system for an event for a quite affordable price (seeing that it was 2x dual 18"s and EV SX-300 tops with hauling&setting it up)

From what I gathered small bands use speakers for vocals and keyboard mainly.. a dance stack system isn't really sought after in the market due to it's size. But you do have to bear in mind that I've designed this partially from a music producers viewpoint which inevitably affects the outcome.

On a side note, I've been to a forest rave that had sound systems where the very low end was consisting of a dozen or so of JBL bass bins (those cube-shaped ones, JRX-series I believe)

EDIT : And I must admit that the plans have some flaws... the bass extension could be bigger, the low end will most likely be muddy, the mids rely heavily on the scoop and the highs on the tweeter arrays so getting an even frequency response from the stack would require a lot of fine-tuning.


Edited by efinque - 17 October 2017 at 11:06am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 11:09am
But thats what i mean, most people doing small dj gigs only need a couple 18 bass bins with satalites. Anything more would worry the manager. Hence what i meant about the smaller, neater systems.

If your wanting to rent out bigger stacks you'll find that most venues of that size are already being supplied/bought their own, dj's rarely have owt to do with sound systems unless they are either breaking them or the aforementioned pub dj.

Plus its a very established market, you'll need to stand out and homebrew usually isnt that desirable, people want well know brands.

Anyway im not here to piss on your bonfire but i seriously suggest you speak with someone already in the area of the industry you want to break into and see what they're doing. Dont waste your money building that stack, which frankly, is waaaay outdated and looks a pain.to move (think up stairs).

P.s. look on 'get your rigs out v2' on facebook. That might give you a better isea of what is considered a 'dance stack' these days.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 11:12am
Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

it's just a dream.
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2017 at 3:22pm
Well anyway, I just dumped the scanned drafts to QCAD.

I'll post the finished version here once I get it done.. (if I ever get it done)

EDIT : And it's not my intention or even in my best interest to put a company like Funktion One or people like Shorty out of business... rather to offer a cost-effective solution people who can't afford to shell out 70-100k on a system. If I was a club owner (I know a few) I probably wouldn't have the time or the money, as they're either starting out or busy doing loads of other things, so the only options would be to DIY or pay whatever the engineer/builder asks... then there's the heritage thing too.

EDIT 2 : Here's a Dropbox link to the QCAD file (.dxf) It's sort of messy and missing a few things but you get the idea..


Updated the design with a 8" mid horn... the HTA-C2 tweeter array is still a bit skewed though. It'd raise the overall costs to 9,5k at a minimum.


Edited by efinque - 18 October 2017 at 5:12pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2017 at 8:29pm
Look mate. I dont wanna sound harsh but those plans are not very good. The sub is poorly laid out, very short and swings wildly between narrow and wide expansion. The 'kick' has that weird lip at bottom before the mouth. Scoops on mid is weird because of cancellations between driver and horn. And the 8" horn fires backwards into a wall?! Not good design.

For £9.5k you could build two stacks of sbh + usb's to pair with some branded tops. Building tried and tested cabs helps with resale value too when you eventually get to selling.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2017 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

Look mate. I dont wanna sound harsh but those plans are not very good. The sub is poorly laid out, very short and swings wildly between narrow and wide expansion. The 'kick' has that weird lip at bottom before the mouth. Scoops on mid is weird because of cancellations between driver and horn. And the 8" horn fires backwards into a wall?! Not good design.

For £9.5k you could build two stacks of sbh + usb's to pair with some branded tops. Building tried and tested cabs helps with resale value too when you eventually get to selling.

I appreciate your input and I do acknowledge that there are flaws in this design... plus, you're probably right that a pair of, say, BFM Titans or Tubas with off-the-shelf tops would blow the stack away.

The calculations are missing a few things too.. profiles, corner pieces, terminals, connectors, wires etc.

But, like stated earlier, it's a "well established" business and standing out requires a lot of work and engineering which isn't actually walking to a music store, buying a system and then imagining going places with it.. think of it more as a hobby.

EDIT : And I've never built a W-Sub before or ever heard one in action... but I do have the plans somewhere and from what I gathered it performs well; it's just oversized compared to todays standards.

EDIT 2 : And when I say calculations, it means 2 stacks with amps.


Edited by efinque - 18 October 2017 at 8:51pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2017 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

I appreciate your input and I do acknowledge that there are flaws in this design... 

LOL

so why do you ignore the advice offered? Several people have repeatedly pointed out specific shortcomings of your designs at this stage, yet you have done no changes at all. Why bother doing a CAD model of something that is not going to work? Confused 






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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2017 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:


LOL

so why do you ignore the advice offered? Several people have repeatedly pointed out specific shortcomings of your designs at this stage, yet you have done no changes at all. Why bother doing a CAD model of something that is not going to work? Confused 

Well, let's pretend that the stack had at least some synergy on a very basic level... 

So what about amps and processing? I made the rough estimates based on QSC GX7's and 5's for the low end because I know a PA guy who uses them (I'm not very familiar with his amp rack; I was more interested in the processing at the time)

Now, I've done an install using T.Amps but they have a problem when they're used at low volumes; they go in protect mode and have to be switched off and on again but they'd provide a substantial amount of power when bridged in contrast to the QSC's for the same price. Scoop, mids and highs would be driven by Crown XLS'.

As for the processing, I was thinking something along the lines of a simple dbx Driverack or a pair of their mono 4-ways but those would need to be locked somehow.


Edited by efinque - 18 October 2017 at 10:05pm
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