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[DIY] Horn on Polish speaker - STX

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djbolo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 August 2005 at 7:08pm

Hi,
This is my horn on Polish speaker - STX GDN 30-200-4-AE.
http://www.stx.pl/index.php?vMenu=2&vMenuItem=3&vSub Page=26

  • It's a semi-professional 12" speaker.
  • Impedance 4Ohm
  • RMS 200W
  • Other parameters on link above
  • Price of this STX is very small - 110zł, it's about $35.

Hornresp shows theoretical response from 37Hz up to 200Hz, but in fact I have to use a filter from 100Hz at 18dB/oct.

In practice the horn have 166 litres (74 x 44 x 52cm) and it is great result with this response.

 

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Tom Umney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Umney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 9:30am

Nice horn for the bedroom.

Just wanna point out one thing, you should always use t-nuts and panhead/crosshead bolts to hold the driver to the baffle; because screws don't hold well in the screw hole, especially if you need to take the driver out for any reason.And t-nuts and panhead/crosshead bolts keep an airtight seal around the driver wheras screws can wiggle loose from the bass vibrations and air pressure behind them.

 



Edited by ToXiC
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rastaman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rastaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 10:02am
Interesting.

Is it a horn, or is it a BP4 cabinet? Laymans comments.

1. There doesn't appear to be any flare as the path follows down the back panel and the turn, ie. the back panel and the inside piece appear to be parallel.

2. The piece of wood extending up beyond the driver area toward the top of the cab, I'm guessing is some sort of way of making a throat chamber? Thats going to be a really tight turn for the sound waves to make, even with an angled deflector on the corner.

It really does look like a giant ported BP4, have you tried modelling it in WinISD using the front and rear chamber volumes, and using the horn path as a port?

Damn nice cabinetry on it though, and fully carpeted as well.

I now turn the forum back to the experts.


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Timber_MG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 11:33am
What did you use to make the plots other than hornresponse? Looks really usefull.
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ceharden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 12:07pm
Definitely looks like it might be a bit of BP-Horn hybrid but then again so is the HD15 (correct me if I'm wrong) with a large-ish front chamber, short flare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 12:26pm
If you look at the efficiency, phase response and driver excursion plots you'll see straight away the tell-tale signs of a BP hybrid. It's not a black/white destinction, but this is definitely more hybrid than horn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rastaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 12:31pm
Yep I think the HD is. The difference being this has a long port or no flare section before the large, short flare. The HD uses the radius of the curved section as a flare. What's the benefit of putting a substantial flare on what appears to be a port?

I'd be interested in seeing how it was modelled in hornresp. Does the flare help couple the port output to air? Is it giving a lower response thanks to the BP4 part and a better projection thanks to the flare? It may just have a really small flare and we don't see it. Kind of like the EV T-18 backwards scoop, except with a closed chamber driver? Did you draw up plans for it? How low does it go, looking at the driver displacement it looks like you go past the drivers xmax (7.4mm) at anything below 47Hz, do you have to low cut it at 50Hz as well?

Err sorry, I generally get mad at the missus when she asks me so many questions without taking breath.

Have you any way of getting to the driver now? I can't see an access point of any kind, lift the lid, or take of one of the sides?




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ceharden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 1:03pm
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What's the benefit of putting a substantial flare on what appears to be a port?


I'm guessing it's the same as horn loading a driver.  The horn acts to couple the accoustical impedance output of the cabinet (the port) to the lower impedance of the outside world (free space) thus increasing efficiency.

I've been playing with sims of horns similar to HD15 and this while trying to design my own 15" horn (see other topic).  As you increase the front chamber volume you lower the resonance of the driven resonant system which is then loaded with a horn.  The effect seems to be to allow the box to play lower at the expense of efficiency and high frequency performance (as with BP).  I'm guessing transient response will also suffer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rastaman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 1:11pm
Ah I was reading that thread, the design seemed reminiscent of the University Classic which if memory serves was a horn built to have no angle for the wave to travel through more than 45degrees? Something along those lines.

You're trying to go as low as you can with a pile of Kappa 15LFs or is it as loud as you can, or somwhere in between

My main interest was the useage of hornresp, I still can't easily get realworld ideas from it. How you go from a long straight expo horn to a folded horn.

I mean who doesn't want to take a $35 driver and get <40Hz from it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 1:13pm
[RAMBLING ALERT!!!]

The problem with hornresponse is, that it cannot model systems accurately (at LF anywways, higher up it's off by a bit->lots anyways) that break the asumption of a planar wave, i.e. the real life wavefronts have a curvature to them. At LF it is a resonant system acoustically similar to a 4th order Bandpass and some people model the proper size for the front chamber like a BP in WinISD/similar before adding the non-constant-cross-section port.

The other effect is a 1/4 wave resonance which can be seen in the excursion plots. The returning wave (it gets diffracted at the mouth or often a little in front of it, esp in stacks) meets the driver in phase at 1/4 and helps it along to more excursion. If you were to look at a detailed Waterfall plot you'd see that this energy trails the rest of the system (which starts acting more and more like a horn depending on mouth size and to a lesser extent horn geometry, i.e. the exact flare isn't that important) and helps the driver to more excursion than what it would have been capable of in just a sealed box (even more so at high volume levels)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 1:58pm
So who's rambling?

I will admit that some of my ideas come from applying what I think I know about accoustic systems to cabinet design rather than knowing what actually happens.  If I don't know the answer, I usually try to reason it from what I do know.  I'm also aware that simulation such as Hornresp have their limitations, ultimately only being an approximation of the real-world system.

At LF (below 100Hz say), I would have thought the wave curvature in small systems would be negligable, and the wave would behave as if planar in nature?  Hence being able to fold horns at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2005 at 2:16pm
Yes and no. While the effect on loading might be rather small at LF, higher up you can get yourself less loading that what would have been possible (i.e. if the flare is too steep you might loose on loading in the middle or get a nice resonance midband or you might have yourself a nice 4th order bandpass with a really strong resonance higher up in stacks).
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