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DJ & Sound System volume levellers

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RC1 Sound System View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 April 2018 at 10:05pm
For a long time we've been frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a product out there that can transparently level out the sound during events like a dedicated engineer would, such that to the human ear of the audience the perceived loudness remains fairly constant.  To that end we're testing a product I've prototyped that specifically does that, but I would be really interested to know if anyone out there knows of any other products designed to do this - maybe I've just not come across them yet?
 
Of course we're familiar with the obvious crude offerings like the AVC2, SP2120, Compeller, etc, but none of them can fulfil the requirement as described, and to be fair aren't necessarily designed to.  The SP2120 is intended to protect speakers, the AVC2 to control noise pollution, etc, none are designed simply to please the listeners, although the Compellor 320A comes closest.
 
Any thoughts?


Edited by RC1 Sound System - 25 April 2018 at 10:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 8:00am
I wonder if Waves Vocal Rider would work in this application. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brokenjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 9:05am
XTA SIDD 324? 

Soundweb can be programmed up too 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 9:25am
It might be an idea to contact XLNT/Event Acoustics over here in the Netherlands. They are a spinoff from Flashlight/Ampco regarding noise control, but from the viewpoint of the organiser. great ideas can be found there like MeTRAo and the Bass Enhancer (a combination of an limiter and substraction/addition of fundamentals)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 9:58am
Originally posted by brokenjoe brokenjoe wrote:

XTA SIDD 324? 

Soundweb can be programmed up too 
 
Thanks for the suggestion Joe, the XTA products are really good, but only offer the usual compressor/limiter/dynamic functions, they don't listen and think like a human engineer would.
 
The idea behind our device is that it will carefully ride the gain exactly the same way as an attentive engineer at FOH would, thereby allowing the event engineer to be absent (toilet/food break, fixing DJ kit, or simply offsite) without spoiling the sound at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 10:00am
Originally posted by Bams Bams wrote:

It might be an idea to contact XLNT/Event Acoustics over here in the Netherlands. They are a spinoff from Flashlight/Ampco regarding noise control, but from the viewpoint of the organiser. great ideas can be found there like MeTRAo and the Bass Enhancer (a combination of an limiter and substraction/addition of fundamentals)
 
 
Thanks for the suggestion.  Looks like they have some really innovative products there, but they seem to be angled more towards noise control which is not really what our device is for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 10:05am
Interesting , in what stage is the development? Any pics ?
Im sure lots of people would find this useful,i would.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Sypa Sypa wrote:

Interesting , in what stage is the development? Any pics ?
Im sure lots of people would find this useful,i would.
 
It does exist on the testbench, I'm planning to put it into a 1U rack case in the coming days to take out for field tests.
 
As a touring soundsystem often doing all night DJ based events we've been desperate for something like this for years, so eventually I just decided to develop it myself.
 
Not only could most similar touring systems find it very useful, but almost every nightclub in the world could significantly benefit from something like this.  I just don't believe on that basis that nobody else has developed anything like it?  That's why I put this post up, just to make sure I wasn't missing anything and that there really isn't anything else like it about?
 
It is only a couple of circuit boards of fairly inexpensive components in a rack case, so not exactly expensive to make either, but the practical value would be phenomenal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 10:42am
What do you mean like constant spl?
Constant in a way limiter will limit the max volume, or in a way compressor/expander is working?
If the second one, then i dont see a point in such product. You dont want a constant spl at gigs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 10:54am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

What do you mean like constant spl?
Constant in a way limiter will limit the max volume, or in a way compressor/expander is working?
If the second one, then i dont see a point in such product. You dont want a constant spl at gigs. 
 
Neither, if you wanted a compressor or limiter there's already lots to choose from, would be no need for me to make my own.
 
A limiter limits the maximum, which will pump the sound down with every dynamic transient and modulate the apparent average level according to the crest factor of each recording.  Not great to listen to.
 
A compressor will compromise the dynamic range of the sound, certainly not good either.
 
What you need is an engineer standing out the front considering how loud the sound is and just slightly and slowly tweaking the fader as required so that the show maintains a consistent average perceived volume regardless of how useless the DJs may be at maintaining their levels.  The engineer will ignore transients, ignore the duty cycle and crest factor variations, ignore the odd shout of an MC, he won't "pump" the fader with the bass, he'll just try to keep a consistent average level.  Of course if the DJ suddenly puts 15db on the level then the engineer will (perhaps at risk of spilling his drink) jump for the fader to apply some faster "emergency" response, etc...
 
This is what our device is also designed to do.  Not sure what to call it yet, but it's neither a limiter or compressor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 11:03am
So will it only lower the spl when needed, or it will pump it up also? That was my question. About the way it works. Comp/expander was just to explain the process.
Marjan Milosevic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 11:11am
does it just work off the input signal or is there a microphone for signal from the room?
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