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DJ & Sound System volume levellers

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RC1 Sound System View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 11:21am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

So will it only lower the spl when needed, or it will pump it up also? That was my question. About the way it works. Comp/expander was just to explain the process.
 
It does not affect the signal at all until the threshold level is exceeded.  When the signal exceeds the threshold the device maintains the perceived average volume at the threshold level regardless of how much the input is then increased.
 
So, to specifically answer your question it will only lower the gain when needed and the threshold is exceeded.


Edited by RC1 Sound System - 26 April 2018 at 11:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 11:28am
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

does it just work off the input signal or is there a microphone for signal from the room?
 
We did consider using a mic to get optimum results, but the hassle factor of rigging, especially on touring shows, makes this a bit less viable.
 
Instead it just monitors the signal path.  Assuming the sound system is reasonably well set up and equalised the device will have a good idea of how it sounds out front from the signal.
 
Of course if it is used with a very badly out of balance system this could compromise it's performance slightly, but a slightly less than perfect performance of the device in this case would probably be overshadowed by the more glaringly obvious poor sounding system.
 
With any reasonably well set up system the device should perform just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 11:50am
To me it sounds like you are trying to do look ahead limiting, which already exists on many prodcuts.

Signal gets analysed before it reaches the limiting stage and hence the limitter then knows how to handle it transparently and you don't even notice when it happens. I've heard and used some stuff with this kind of limiting and you really don't hear when it hits the limits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by Pasi Pasi wrote:

To me it sounds like you are trying to do look ahead limiting, which already exists on many prodcuts.

Signal gets analysed before it reaches the limiting stage and hence the limitter then knows how to handle it transparently and you don't even notice when it happens. I've heard and used some stuff with this kind of limiting and you really don't hear when it hits the limits.
 
Hi Pasi,
There's no look ahead limiting at all, all the response is retrospective, just the same as the response of an actual engineer trying to do the same job from FOH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheAmazingGanjaMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 12:33pm
hmmmmm im not sure i like the idea of this. djs should know how to control their own levels and if they dont, probably shouldnt be playing on a system where it matters so much. 

too many bedroom djs making it in to big clubs without the required skills and causing more work for others who dont get paid as much as these djs.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 12:39pm
Well the point is that happens more often than not heh, djs not knowing to gain match that is. So why wouldnt you like the idea if you are enginering and sick of riding the fader all night long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by TheAmazingGanjaMan TheAmazingGanjaMan wrote:

hmmmmm im not sure i like the idea of this. djs should know how to control their own levels and if they dont, probably shouldnt be playing on a system where it matters so much. 

too many bedroom djs making it in to big clubs without the required skills and causing more work for others who dont get paid as much as these djs.




So if as you say to many bedroom dj's with no gain control are making it into clubs then that's even more reason to have a product that keeps them in check, beats me what's not to like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by TheAmazingGanjaMan TheAmazingGanjaMan wrote:

hmmmmm im not sure i like the idea of this. djs should know how to control their own levels and if they dont, probably shouldnt be playing on a system where it matters so much. 

too many bedroom djs making it in to big clubs without the required skills and causing more work for others who dont get paid as much as these djs.
 
 
That's a bit like saying you don't like the railing along the clifftop as it spoils the view, and even without the railing people should know not to fall off the cliff, and if they don't then they probably shouldn't be anywhere near the cliff in the first place....
 
I agree DJs should be able to control their own levels, and to be fair some are very good at it, but if you ask people that engineer such events you will find out that this particular skill doesn't seem to be as widespread as you would like to think among DJs.
 
Also, to be fair if the DJ can control their levels perfectly then this device won't interfere with their signal anyway.


Edited by RC1 Sound System - 26 April 2018 at 12:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheAmazingGanjaMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 1:18pm
coz thats a bandage solution and does not solve the problem.

i dont like the cliff top example, as we are talking about paid professionals, who should know how to do the job they are being paid to do.

yes i agree the problem is pretty widespread, and getting worse with all these gadgets to make djing easier, i had a very well paid producer play a dj set where i spent the first 20min of his set explaining how to use a djm900 

i do get the need for this, and can see it could be quite useful but i dont think this will help engineers in the long run. djs dont need to beat match as they can sync everything, djs dont need to know how to control gains with this product. so the next era of djs will be even worse and will then require another bandage solution. 

instead, djs should have to work their way up to playing big events, they should learn these skills from the smaller events where this kind of thing isnt a big problem 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 1:36pm
"instead, djs should have to work their way up to playing big events, they should learn these skills from the smaller events where this kind of thing isnt a big problem"

But that is not happening, so creating a product that helps is a good idea, perhaps you should start a competence course for dj's, you know if you score 95 out of a 100 then you can play in BIG clubs, i'm sure that will work out just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RC1 Sound System Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 1:37pm
Dear Mr Amazing Ganja Man,
I, and a lot of other engineers, certainly share your frustration about these aspects of incompetence among the DJ community.
 
In that regard I don't usually put any level control over the DJ monitors, if their level control is awful then I want them to hear that for themselves, alas even hearing their own awful level control doesn't necessarily help.
 
However, much as I would love the audience to stop dancing and shout "your level control is shit Mr Famous DJ", sadly I can't see it happening, and instead what is more likely is that people will walk over to the engineer and tell him he's doing a shit job.  As the engineer that wouldn't make me feel good, in fact it would make me feel sad, and perhaps slightly enraged.  So I either have to spend the night working hard at the mixer to deal with the DJ's inadequacies, or I have to use some gadget or other to do it for me.  To date I've not found any such gadget that does it as well as I would like, hence I'm building my own....
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2018 at 1:47pm
Well, shitty DJs will however continue to redline and clip their mixers regardless of the device after the mixer, and will spoil the sound before it reach your device and will blame the "shitty" sound system. :-)
I dont think there is a win situation when DJs and todays club crowd is in question. Its a lost battle when mp3 got invented.

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https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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