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Djyves Projects CB(X)-18's, TH-SPUD, Duran, CNC
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Points: 245 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Audio_Stash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2014 at 2:30pm
Very impressive work. 
Fantastic 
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Points: 564 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djyves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2014 at 11:15pm
Thanks.

I don't think direct drive should be a problem, there are lots of machines out there with direct drive.
This machine has a 10/16 teeth reduction on the large axis, ant motor does fine.

I also had a motor stat stalled or skipped steps, it coudn't reach the right speed.
The motor was driving the ballscrew, I now have a motor with a lower inductance.
What voltage do your drivers and steppers run on? 

I did some routing today, no cab's but some mdf christmas trees:
If the video doesn't work: http://youtu.be/fAno1iCFb8I

In progress:

In progress:
"If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!"
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Points: 2707 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2014 at 7:36pm
Looking good man,  nice edge on the mdf what cutters are you using? 

My driver supply is 36V but the drivers wont use 36V unless it needs too, as i understand it raises the voltage until the current flows.
James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk
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Points: 564 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djyves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2014 at 11:47pm
I'm using 6mm 2 flute compression cutters, it has positive and negative spirals/flutes.
I'm using them to go through 18mm, single pass at 2300mm/min.

They're the best cutters I've used yet.

In this picture you can see the up and down spirals:

It leaves a very clean cutting edge:

Comparison to a cheap chinese spiral up cutter, upcut:
Compression:

Also, if you're routing normally you'll have to create tabs or screws to prevent cutout's from moving.
With compression bits that's not a problem. A part of the sawdust is pressed into the cut, it holds the materal in place very well.

I did some test's where I did the cutout first, and after I did the cutout I routed shapes and carvings on the panel, it did not move at all. 

They are more expensve than normal cutters, about 30 euro's a piece.
Maybe I'll order a batch from china.

Your description about the driver is more or less correct.
However, I tested with my 60v and 230v drivers, and the 230v drivers could drive the motors better and faster without losing steps.
"If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!"
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Points: 2707 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2014 at 1:39pm
Yeah that cut quality looks good,  it dosent make a mess of the spoil sheet too by the look of it.  Im currently using 4mm carbide up spiral, single fluted, and getting results just like your cheep Chinese up cutter.

I decided against compression cutters as i didn't think my machine would cope with a full depth cut, i will have another think,  it might be possible to use 4mm cutters on 12mm ply and do a full depth cut on my machine....Your machine has a lot more tourque than mine though.  Was it missing steps when jogging or missing steps when doing a full depth cut?

Interesting point about using it to hold down,  do you not use screws then?  I would have thought you would still have to use screws to keep the sheet flat?  Or have you got a vacuum table?

Do the compression cutters still leave a poor edge quaitity when cutting recesses say only 3mm deep?  As the bottom half is still an up spiral?  Or do you change too to a down spiral for shallow recesses?   I would really like to use one type of cutter for everything on the cabinet as i haven't got an auto tool changer on my machine, and manually changing and re setting takes time.  I have ordered a tool setter and some proximity sensors which should speed it up though.  I might order a down spiral and a compression cutter and do some experimenting.  

Cheers.

James
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Points: 564 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djyves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2014 at 11:47pm
I flattened my spoilboard, I also zero on the spoil board the bit barely touches it.

My machine was (and still is) missing steps when I move my X-axis faster than 4500mm/min.
To be safe my X-axis (2505 ballscrew) is limited to 3500mm/min, witch is a bit slow when jogging from one side to another. I've already changed the motor, at first it was missing steps at 2000mm/min.
The Y-axis moves at about 10000mm/min, the Z at 2000mm/min.

Your motors have got quite some torque on low rpm, maybe you could cut 18mm single pass with a compression cutter, not too fast. The cutting with a 6mm compression cutter does not require a lot of force. 

Put the compression cutter in a normal router to get an idea of the force needed (I agree, at 2300mm/min quite some force is needed but slower should be possible).

I haven't got a vacuum table yet, I use clamps and pieces of wood to keep the sheet of wood in positition. With spiral-up cutters I use tabs to keep the pieces in position, with compression cutters I don't use anythng.

I've had some accidents with spiral-up cutters lifting the board up from the spoilboard, compression cutters push more downward than that they pull upwards, so this is not a problem.

If I need to to a shallow recess, I still use a compression cutter. The downcut spiral goes all the way down, the up spiral only a few mm. The edge on a 3mm recess looks way better that with a spiral-up cutter, but not as good as with a spiral down cutter. But changing takes time, I do almost everything with compression cutters.


Edited by djyves - 24 December 2014 at 11:48pm
"If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!"
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Points: 2707 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2015 at 4:42pm
How many steps per mm are you running on your X-axis?  Are you using a breakout board or a motion controller?  Im just wondering if the missing steps at high speeds could be a control issue as you have so much torque i would have thought it would be ok. 

I cut some more boxs the other day at 2500mm/min and i am still missing steps on the Y-axis, i think it is down to the mass of the gantry, it seems ok jogging as it accelerates and decelerates but when running a program it trys to run at constant velocity all the time so i will try changing the settings., i havent tried changing the constant velocity / exact stop modes yet.

Ive ordered some compression cutters on your advice, it should be an improvement even if i cut in multiple passes. 
 
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James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk
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Points: 564 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djyves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2015 at 10:14am
My X-axis has 80 steps mer mm at the moment. I'm using a (slightly modded) breakout board to sent pulse and direction signals.

The stalling of my motor is due to the high speed, my ballscrew only has a 5mm pitch. At the moment the X-axis can run at 4500mm/min which is fast enough, only with jogging it is not so fast.

Accel- and decellerating slowly when routing wood is not a big problem.
"If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!"
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Some progress made on cnc today.Still many left to do
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Points: 695 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lukelucas93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2015 at 11:30am
Can anyone link me to where they buy their compression cutters from, described by djyves ? I can seem to find anything other than the Chinese crap.
Noodles, Cabs and Booze - Student life
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I got some 3.175mm compression cutters from sharp tools on alibaba, so far im very happy, cut at least 10 cabinets and some other bits and bats and im still on the first cutter, not all the Chinese cutters are crap.   

Or thers plenty of European suppliers. 

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=compression+cutters+cnc
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Points: 695 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lukelucas93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2015 at 3:58pm
I must have been researching the wrong cutters! I had trouble finding them Thankyou for the link !
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