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Ecler amps.

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major_gloom View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 March 2012 at 4:20pm
what do people think of these amps?

anyone got any experience of the PAM ecler series? i borrowed my mates a few years back , but i couldnt really give an opinion because they were underpowering the speakers i was driving and they had no bridge mode iirc which was annoying as they would have powered them perfectly bridged.
Are they stable down to 2ohms? i redmember they were seriously heavy and a had a substantial power cable , looked like 4mm2 or even 6 possibly.

this is the series im interested in 


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M4trix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M4trix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2012 at 5:51pm
Hm, they sound good but they tend to go in 'almighty big bang' mode for no special reason. My theory is that the internal cooling system is not perfectly done as the amp reaches higher temperatures even at lower power levels. Remember, higher temperatures shortens the OP devices lifetime. I've made a heavy test with ecler's PAM 1400 and the heatsink temperature was over 75C even then when I cooled it with a 200CFM fan! Therefore I wouldn't recommend loads under 4 ohms. PAM 2000 and PAM 2600 are models with 2 amplifier modules per channel already wired in bridge mode and that's why there isn't a bridge mode option. If we disregard the overheating issue, I would say they are good amps. Smile

Edit: I forgot to mention one more important thing. The thermal runaway. The thermal tracking is also not done well. It is always the best way that the thermal tracking device, in this case two BD437, is mounted directly on top of one OP device. Ecler mounted them on the heat sinks far away from mosfets which is, my opinion, unacceptable. You guys here with experience know what I'm talking about. Wink      

Edited by M4trix - 14 March 2012 at 6:53pm
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scott101 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2012 at 6:24pm
Sound good for mid-top work but gutless on bass.

Work wise they are great while running but are prone to instability/oscillation. FET's are expensive to replace and tricky to find in stock. 

Most amp's I've seen fail are due to either the above or a lump of fluff getting stuck in the rectangular vent that allows air into the output stages. Amp's don't like being hot Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M4trix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2012 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by scott101 scott101 wrote:

Work wise they are great while running but are prone to instability/oscillation.


This is very true.  Also-->

Quote
The MOSFETs used are IRFP9240 (P) and IRFP240 (N). They are assembled in a common source
configuration so they can be completely saturated. This kind of configuration has two drawbacks compared to a common drain one: less stability (because of the configuration gain itself) and high output impedance in open loop.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2012 at 6:52pm
Lovely quality amps, they can get tatty if used in a damp atmosphere or subject to smoke fluid, seen alot of rusty examples with flaky paint. They are knocking on a bit now but peform well if they've been serviced and kept clean properly. Also the bigger ones are rather heavy.
A few fun pubs round here used to have them although with providing background music in the day and disco at night they were generally left on 24/7 leading to noisy fans and tired capacitors. No reason why a proper and full service on a tired example shouldn't guarantee a few more years use!
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major_gloom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote major_gloom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2012 at 9:09pm
they certainly are heavy , and i must admit i did find them a little gutless on bass which is why i started this thread, i wondered if other people had found this.

i chatted to my mate who i borrowed a couple off and owns several of these. a channel has gone down on two of his and another 2 have died completely. so im thinking they're not the greatest amps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote major_gloom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2012 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by M4trix M4trix wrote:

PAM 2000 and PAM 2600 are models with 2 amplifier modules per channel already wired in bridge mode and that's why there isn't a bridge mode option.          

i see. no wonder it doesnt like going down to 2 ohms if your effectively running each channel permanently bridged. not many amps would cope with 2 ohms bridged.

i get the impression they're pretty power hungry too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2012 at 8:02pm
Well they are rather old hence what I said about servicing.
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Mircea Bartic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mircea Bartic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2012 at 8:18pm
these were the ancestors of the DPA series
I Have't used PAM series as they were already discontinued in 2005 when we started selling them
but the DPA models were built like a tank

we have a lot of installs with DPA Amps running in bridge mono configuration runing 4 ohm subs for 7 years now , none have failed so far. Most of them are used every night in anger with no cleaning since we installed them (cheap managers)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M4trix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2012 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:


but the DPA models were built like a tank


Yes, much better design. Thumbs Up







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mircea Bartic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2012 at 6:23am
those pictures were actually made by me in 2006 LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M4trix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2012 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

those pictures were actually made by me in 2006 LOL


You got me there. Big smile

Edit: speaking of which, do you have service manuals for DPA 1400? Thanks.


Edited by M4trix - 17 March 2012 at 7:34pm
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