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Earplug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 11:14am
"Still, it is not a limiter nor a true automatic gain control like the Drawmer SP2120, Formula Sound AVC2, Outline SPL Control Plus, etc."

+1

Yes - save yourself a lot of time/money & just invest in one of those to sort out what you already have. Or at least see if that can give you back some sort of social life!  Smile

I don't think that there is any doubt that people's ears (if DJ's can be called people! LOL),  "close down" with volume & time (fatigue) - which inevitably leads to the faders getting pushed up into the red.

I have the AVC2 for those situations - and it definitely does the job. And no doubt saves on blown/burned out drivers.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vertx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 2:46am
So I've actually got a Drawmer SP2120 In between the DJ mixer and the DBMark XCA but I prefer it not in the signal chain, I can hear the difference... plus it's another point of possible failure.

I though the Drawmer was actually a limiter, rather than a gain reducer/controller?

I know the XCA has AGC on the input but I don't think it's good for music...

I probably need a better LMS with Dynamic EQ too so the balance is better early on when there's less people on the floor...

Something to bring the LMS input gain up slowly throughout the course of the night, automatically, would be good too. Drawmer between LMS and mixer, then automatic slow gain rise based on set times to peak when the headliner comes on....




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:47am
IIRC, member RC1 Sound System was developing something.

Here:-





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 9:10am
Originally posted by vertx vertx wrote:

So I've actually got a Drawmer SP2120 In between the DJ mixer and the DBMark XCA but I prefer it not in the signal chain, I can hear the difference... plus it's another point of possible failure.

I though the Drawmer was actually a limiter, rather than a gain reducer/controller?

I know the XCA has AGC on the input but I don't think it's good for music...

I probably need a better LMS with Dynamic EQ too so the balance is better early on when there's less people on the floor...

Something to bring the LMS input gain up slowly throughout the course of the night, automatically, would be good too. Drawmer between LMS and mixer, then automatic slow gain rise based on set times to peak when the headliner comes on....






It’s an install. Does it sound better with the Drawmer in the chain than it does without it, when your subs are hammered, burned and flabby?

It’s definitely an AGC. When the chosen threshold is reached, the gain is reduced. The only form of compression occurs when the input is fully saturated, which takes some serious doing. Regardless I’d suggest you do a double blind test on that perception. They’re not perfect, but I’ve measured one at various levels and it’s ruler flat bar a tiny wiggle of about 1 dB around the internal crossover frequency used to control the multi-band thresholds. If used sensibly, any distortion the op amps add should be far less noticeable than many other things in the chain - including your loudspeakers.

There are more transparent units out there, like the upper tier of the DateQ SPL range, but those get spendy very quickly.

Perhaps also use the possibly you can hear it being inserted as a cue to verify your gain structure throughout. Pro tip: you need to read some spec sheets or take measurements for that! It’s very, very often overlooked and as a result systems are sitting in or close to the noise floor or limit of components in the chain.

Check the ‘5 minute gain structure’ video by Pat Brown of SynAudCon on YouTube for a quick crash course.

I don’t have any experience with the dBMark XCA stuff but you shouldn’t be able to ‘hear’ an AGC, unless it’s not an AGC. It should work no different to you turning the channel gain knob up or down.

However this all just makes me think you should invest in the right tool for the job - open architecture install DSP with zoning and the like, plus the training or a tech to code it to your needs. No knobs or buttons to poke unless you choose to add them then too. Trust me, having many installs under our belts - if there’s anything to fiddle with by ‘someone’s mate’, it will be fiddled with eventually.

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

IIRC, member
     RC1 Sound System was developing something.

Here:-







That’s the Leveliza already discussed. It’s not a protection device per se. Very useful if there’s no tech on site, or to allow one to have a break, but it won’t save the kit from being melted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 9:46am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:



if there’s anything to fiddle with by ‘someone’s mate’, it will be fiddled with eventually.


"he's a qualified sound engineer...."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:06am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:



Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

IIRC, member
     RC1 Sound System was developing something.

Here:-







That’s the Leveliza already discussed. It’s not a protection device per se. Very useful if there’s no tech on site, or to allow one to have a break, but it won’t save the kit from being melted.



Ok - didn't have the time to read through the thread this morning. Good to know. Thanks.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:30am


In my humble opinion the AVC2 is no fun at all just as the talent get the dance floor rocking the hand of god decides to cut the level for 10seconds causing instant dance floor deflation.  The AVC2D is far more fun. Transparent in the same way as a SP2120 where one is convinced the dynamics have been smoothed out. But at least the dance floor stays in the groove.. 

DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:06pm
Originally posted by vertx vertx wrote:

I probably need a better LMS with Dynamic EQ too so the balance is better early on when there's less people on the floor...


it's very hard to automate this as the required balance depends not just on volume but on the number of people in the room, decor, humidity etc. The Sabine Real-Q can do RTA and autoatic EQ adjustment but I rarely see one up for sale and I haven't heard of this feature on any other product.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:08pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:



if there’s anything to fiddle with by ‘someone’s mate’, it will be fiddled with eventually.


"he's a qualified sound engineer...."


I've been making noise in various forms for over 15 years and I'm only just getting 'qualified'

Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

Originally posted by vertx vertx wrote:

I probably need a better LMS with Dynamic EQ too so the balance is better early on when there's less people on the floor...


it's very hard to automate this as the required balance depends not just on volume but on the number of people in the room, decor, humidity etc. The Sabine Real-Q can do RTA and autoatic EQ adjustment but I rarely see one up for sale and I haven't heard of this feature on any other product.


Not a dynamic EQ as such, but this does 10-band limiting with two overall thresholds based on a class 1 mic, as well as a 10-band EQ:
https://www.dateq.nl/en/product/spl6/

Sit down when you check the cost, mind.

Edited by toastyghost - Yesterday at 12:10pm
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