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ES18 BPH

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Dutchman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 January 2017 at 8:13pm
Hi guys,

What would be best driver for ES18-BPH with budget of 150-200€ per driver.

I have these in mind.

the box Speaker 18-500/8-A
B&C 18PS100



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2017 at 8:36pm
For kick or using full bass?

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Dutchman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2017 at 8:56pm
For kick.

I would use these above punishers or EAW LA400 or my true dream: lab horns! 
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Peter Jan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2017 at 11:42pm
ES18BPH is an allround basscab, not very sub and not very kick. You can make it work (good/better/acceptable) in either end of the spectrum by speakerchoice and that makes them somewhat less responsive on the other end as a trade-off.
Both speakers are not exactly suited for kick, but 18PS100 could work slightly better.
18PS76 would be better if you can find them.
In fact any high BL, low(isch) Q around the 0.3 mark and preferably 3" voicecoil instead of 4", would be better suited than the ones you are considdering, at least for kick duty.
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Dutchman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2017 at 8:11pm
So if you have 6x ES18 per side and you load 4x of them with sub drivers and 2x with kick drivers, that should work? Or will it create phase problems or just don't give both sub and kick.

18PS76 is about same price as 18PS100, thx!

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Mark James View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2017 at 8:31pm
keep them doing all the same thing, far more efficient/less phase issues imo
depending on music and event type etc six in one stack with decent [suitable and matched] amps and drivers will will do a decent ish 40-180 ish hz [roughly] without too much issues, not sure it will be ruler flat or anything but theres far worse out there, blue aran have mk1 p audio 650el which was one of the original recomended drivers going for within your budget i think
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote msoundsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2017 at 8:47pm
40hz. Seems a bit low when driving them flat out.. Wouldn't go much below 50hz with them.
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Peter Jan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2017 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by Dutchman Dutchman wrote:

So if you have 6x ES18 per side and you load 4x of them with sub drivers and 2x with kick drivers, that should work? Or will it create phase problems or just don't give both sub and kick.

As in : not with Punishers for the low-end ?
In that case indeed best to have them all work in one, somewhat broader, frequency band and use one type of speaker.
Also rather go for a speaker like 18PS100 to keep bottom end good.
Won't kick as a dedicated kickbin, but if the upper end could be "only" to about ~180 Hz, it could work very acceptable. Down low I would use a lowcut at least around 40 Hz or a bit higher if you can live with that.


Edited by Peter Jan - 05 January 2017 at 10:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote msoundsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2017 at 10:41am
The es18 is more kick cab than it is sub.. I have 6 of these loaded with pd186 powered by crown vz5000. Kick they take ur head off. Propper Sub is non existent with this cab
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2017 at 10:46am
Are you locked in to the es18? If it were me I would build MKH-230. I used a couple of these for a festival and two had no problem keeping up with 8 punishers, they also sound pretty good. Drivers are not hugely expensive either. 
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Dutchman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutchman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2017 at 1:10pm
No, i'm not locked in to the ES18. Just getting some opinions together. That MKH-230 looks a bit like a W-bin to me. 
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Peter Jan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2017 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Dutchman Dutchman wrote:

That MKH-230 looks a bit like a W-bin to me. 


And yet they are very different animals.

ES18BPH is a 4th order bandpass design, could say hybrid bandpass/horn. The horn is rather a flared port than a horn. Next to zero compression and all. Anyway it's respons curve says it all. You can make it more optimal on either end of it's respons, but by design it will stay limited to that "small" respons curve, whatever speaker you put into it.

18" W-bin is a 6th order bandpass/horn hybrid with one flared port and another straight BR porting. Again limited bandwidth, not all that much compression. Just as ES18BPH the flared port makes up a bit of the bandwidth limitation of bandpass in the higher region, by broadening the usefull respons a bit. In case of the W-bin, the low part is dominantly just a straight BR.

MKH-230 is true front loaded horn, with proper compression and gradual expansion. Hornlength fits the lower frequency limit of 80-90 Hz and there is much more bandwidth.

Point is... all very hard to compare really, especially when you have not yet decided what the rest of the system is going to be made of. What frequency region do you want or need to tackle ? Depending on what subs and/or tops are going to be (number, frequency band,...), choice of one or the other(s) "kickbin" is a shot in the dark at best.
Don't want to belittle you or anything, but without a few other hard facts or decisions, you will get as much different opinions as persons answering your original question.... and not one opinion is totally wrong ... or absolutely right.
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