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athlon64 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athlon64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2022 at 11:58am
In case someone here has exprience with PAUDIO EL650 drivers in these... i'm wondering what kind of power handling are they good with for you?

I got 8 of these for a local club i work in. I arranged them in a monoblock in front of the stage so their mouths couple. They are working really well even from 2 weak yamaha P7000S amps that barely split about 450W per speaker. I crossed them over at 95hz and the reach down to 40ish quite well in a block of 8.

I was warned by a friend who built these, then when you run 2 of them of an amp that splits about 2600W into 2 boxes (He used a RAM audio amp), that these PAUDIO cones can get ripped. He ruined 2 of them with that power.

So i was wondering if someone else has experience with these... how hard can they get pushed when used as 40-90hz boxes in a block... 

I was thinking that something like 800W a box from a quality AMP should be fine... 

I really don't need more. Already with 2 p7000 amps they are overwhelming for a 600-700 people club. 


Edited by athlon64 - 04 April 2022 at 12:02pm
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bob4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2022 at 4:04pm
Doubling power from 400 to 800 w per driver only yields 3 dB more output. 
Also you will venture into uncertain territory, getting closer to xmax or beyond it, and power compression will also start to eat away at your output.

Unless your amps are on the edge, and clipping, and since you are happy with the output, there is no reason to go for stronger amping. 


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athlon64 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athlon64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2022 at 4:16pm
I know... but these drivers are rated at 1200W AES and 2400W program. 
So at 800W they should still be well under the power compression limit and give me another healthy 3dB of output. Which is not little... 

Currently i'm quite happy with the amount of power available... but these are being used for underground techno/trance/d&b and dub parties... so the power requirements are high.  Now when the system starts running hard into brickwall limiters on the DBX crossover, that are set to be just below the clipping treshold it's performing just about loud enough, but you hear the limiters running. So with another couple of dB available it would be just right. 

Here is a picture of the setup. The horizontally laid miniscoop subs on the side are not used anymore. I will soon hang the top boxes and remove them:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FfdjEn4Q91s_E0aFsl_XtBq5HJcN792K/view?usp=sharing
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Marko View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 12:20pm
1200 AES is termal power handling. Drivers will hit xmax frequency dependant and on some frequencyes well before 1200W.
Altrough they distord less than bassreflex boxes, they still distort and lose dynamcs and change tone when you drive them too hard so you can listen and set limiters that sound right. Dont try to get any last dB out from equipment, especially on heavy compressed music, its better to leave some safety margin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daddy Culture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2022 at 1:54am
Greetings

ABOUT REVERSING POLARITY ON ES18

I'm building some ES18 to use above my scoops as bass/kick bins on my soundsystem. I was thinking to overlapping the frequencies: Scoops (30-70Hz) and ES18 (60-150Hz).

Reversing the polarity on ES18  would cause phase cancellation on the overlapping freqs (60-70Hz)?

Thanks In advance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sushi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2022 at 12:50pm
Each driver's response is overlapped with the other's, even if you cross them the regular way (30-70 subs, 70-150 kicks) the steeper slope you set, the less they'll overlap.
Anyway, reversing polarity in the es18 (which has a reversed driver mount) makes it sound just like it would be if the cone was facing forward and the polarity was regular. Polarity reverse is needed to make it work righ, otherwise you would have major cancelations with the rest of your system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daddy Culture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2022 at 2:41pm
Gotcha!

Thanks sushi Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2022 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by sushi sushi wrote:

Polarity reverse is needed to make it work righ, otherwise you would have major cancelations with the rest of your system.


Not always strictly true, when considering the phase reversal effect of horn-loading and the phase rotations created by both acoustical and electrical low pass and high pass filters.

A bandpass horn isn’t a true horn in many senses and behaves like a reflex at its lower region, but there is still the impact of the acoustical filtering to consider before you choose suitable locations and types for the electrical filtering on top. This is doubly true if you’re planning to use overlapping pass band response with the subs.

As ever, it’s very hard to talk in absolutes. I would suggest making measurements, or at the very least comparing the phase responses in Hornresp models of each box, with your intended filters included. Just make sure to remove the physical distance offset in the menu options to make it easier to read than what you get by default with the many wraps.
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sushi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sushi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2022 at 5:22pm
So is there some probability that this reverse mounted driver doesn't need reverse wiring?
Being myself about to build and load my first pair of es18, i'm very interested!

I would also like to take advantage of the topic's momentary resurrection to ask again if anybody has any advice about suitable drivers for this cab! no chance to get p.audio here, more likely rcf, b&c, 18sound, beyma..
Thanks & cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2022 at 4:02pm
You can wire them normally but flip polarity on DSP then,but as Toasty said you will need to find the exact phase shift for alignment anyway so it needs it and it doesnt. All depends whats the better starting position to start working on it.
Forget the Paudio , look for driver EBP as a guess how the driver will sound in the box.
Higher EBP more kicky faster punchier, lower more oomph slower rounder but could suffer a bit in the upper response. Depends what your needs are and where are you meeting with the tops/subs.
Exact freq response of various drivers can also vary wildly and there is probably one thats perfect for it but i wouldnt know that.
I know i tried 18pzb and tbx100 bnc , preffered the tbx by a long shot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ardeliajozwiak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2022 at 10:20am
Delaying by horn path is always gonna be way off. You might as well do it by ear
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