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F2b vs f215mk2 - BPH vs FLH

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Besa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Besa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: F2b vs f215mk2 - BPH vs FLH
    Posted: 12 September 2022 at 7:57am
Reading the forum I can say f2b it’s considered the best horn design between 50-250hz. Especially used as kick bin but capable also to be used in stand alone. 
If someone has ever compared to pro midbass such as f1 f215 mk1/2 can explain wich is better and why? 

If we want to be more theorist, what are the advantages of a BPH over a FLH?


Edited by Besa - 14 September 2022 at 7:23am
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djeddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2022 at 9:50pm
I'd say the advantages are the other way around... standard horn over a BPH anytime!
BPH's can sound "honky" out of their passband mainly, whereas the F2B (for example) sounds natural. Yes, some BPH's sound good but they are few and far between.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2022 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by Besa Besa wrote:

Reading the forum I can say f2b it’s considered the best horn design between 50-250hz. Especially used as kick bin but capable also to be used in stand alone.


Best sounding cab, I've ever heard, between 75-300hz, is 2x15 reflex.

I always run subs up to at least 80-90hz, so don't need low mid cabs, doing sub.

I'm thinking, cab optimized for correct pair of neo reflex drivers, which have true reference efficiency ( η ₀) over 4.0%, would be quite lethal, even outside.




Edited by levyte357- - 16 September 2022 at 11:18pm
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Besa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Besa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2022 at 6:34pm
@djeddie 
you’re right I suppose the only advantages of a bph over a FLH should be the weight and the lower difficulty to build that. 

@levyte357 
I’m building a pair of S218 with 18NTLW5000 they are a monster 143dB measured from the project. You can find that on 18sound website. They are an hybrid bandpass horn. 
I’ve got also Evo6sh running from 220/up. 
Do you think a 2x15” reflex with for example 18sound 15nmb1000
(1800w program η ₀ =4.7%) can keep up with Evo6sh and S218 ?


Edited by Besa - 20 September 2022 at 6:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2022 at 9:16pm
@Besa

I would not treat that 18sound S218 as a 6th order design (look at the impedance).
The gain you receive from the front chamber is not in the usable range and is completely filtered out.

The configuration itself is to achieve maximum cooling and thus trying to minimise powercompression.
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Besa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Besa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2022 at 9:35pm
Can you explain me specifically this argument? Focusing on the phase and why I should look at the phase response. 
can you also tell me what you mean with not to treat this like a 6th order? 
In my specific situation, how I need to consider these things during speaker choice? 
Thank you :D 


Edited by Besa - 20 September 2022 at 9:36pm
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teeth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2022 at 9:56pm
i don't really have anything meaningful to add here other than doing a lot of research a while ago and coming to the same finding as you: the F2B is shit hot.
(and also impossible to buy, and hard to find good plans for!)
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Besa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Besa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2022 at 10:03pm
i found plans here on the forum, reading the post I suppose they are useful. Aren’t they ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2022 at 10:17pm
i thought that the plans were incomplete for some reason? i can't remember finding a good detailed complete set inc. driver options. i seem to remember there being a lot of to and fro about drivers not fitting. might well have missed something though. my brain is very smooth.
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Besa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Besa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2022 at 10:28pm
Hahahaha no matter of brainLOL size
But 
Actually every pro audio are selling reflex/hybrid horns except rare BPH, so, despite of these forum legends, why actually nobody is developing a FLH anymore? Can New generation drivers achieve the same results with better cooling and less power compression?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2022 at 9:10am
@Besa

You need to look at impedance, not phase.
A bassreflex arrangement would have two peaks, inbetween those two peaks is the impedance minimum which is the tuning frequency. Would it be for example a Bandpass cabinet you would find a third peak and a second impedance minimum. With the S218 it is there, but very minimal and its gain is out of the usable passband. The gain you receive from the front chamber will be filtered out completely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Besa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2022 at 9:15am
so you are telling me that this S218 can't go higher and sounding good?
or because it's more a reflex than a bandpass it can go higher? 
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