face lighting on the cheap?

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   so need some white front lights for faces, was initially looking at the old LED white panels with the 10mm diodes, not a great white but cheap and 'self powered'. But they suck.

What compact fixtures do people use for this purpose, tungsten lamp would be preferred - can get a lil 1ch dimmer for next to nothing these days. Realistically stages wont be bigger than say 10w x 6d meters. Was looking at those 300/500w floods that use standard domestic lamps - cheap but should give a good even coverage within the confines of the spaces i have.

Would be mounted stage L/R far forward as i can possibly go without being in the crowd.... 

dont want to get into anything more complex than light on stick, no extra rigging/flying/stuff FOH etc

Edited by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 - 24 March 2017 at 5:29pm

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mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 November 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 7801	Post Options Post Reply Quote mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: face lighting on the cheap? Posted: 24 March 2017 at 5:28pm
	so need some white front lights for faces, was initially looking at the old LED white panels with the 10mm diodes, not a great white but cheap and 'self powered'. But they suck. What compact fixtures do people use for this purpose, tungsten lamp would be preferred - can get a lil 1ch dimmer for next to nothing these days. Realistically stages wont be bigger than say 10w x 6d meters. Was looking at those 300/500w floods that use standard domestic lamps - cheap but should give a good even coverage within the confines of the spaces i have. Would be mounted stage L/R far forward as i can possibly go without being in the crowd.... dont want to get into anything more complex than light on stick, no extra rigging/flying/stuff FOH etc Edited by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 - 24 March 2017 at 5:29pm
	''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''

csg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086	Post Options Post Reply Quote csg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 March 2017 at 8:21pm
	you would be much better off with some small 500w fresnels - cheap as chips second hand and a much more controllable solution than domestic 500w halogen floods.strand minim / quartet / prelude or CCT minuette would all be good options.
	“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”

Bams Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 08 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 628	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bams Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 March 2017 at 8:39pm
	CCT minuette is the way to go; cheap, available in abundance and bombproof. But watch out when focussing with the lamp on. Don't smack the lamp into either end of the slide, broke a lot of filaments that way..

monkeypuzzle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 25 January 2005 Status: Offline Points: 924	Post Options Post Reply Quote monkeypuzzle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 March 2017 at 9:38pm
	Also consider putting 650w lamps in, the difference is noticeable unlike a 500w vs 650w amplifier
	blah blah blah blah blah......

monkeypuzzle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 25 January 2005 Status: Offline Points: 924	Post Options Post Reply Quote monkeypuzzle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 March 2017 at 9:39pm
	And make sure you get some barn doors with them
	blah blah blah blah blah......

mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 November 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 7801	Post Options Post Reply Quote mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2017 at 3:31pm
	by floodlight i meant something stage orientated still, like this: but ok, compact fresnels it is. keeping it small, i do little stages, like village hall/pubs, its just a bit of fun!! No desire to do paid gigs with riders again, sucked the soul and fun out of gigs for me.
	''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''

MattStolton Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234	Post Options Post Reply Quote MattStolton Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2017 at 4:31pm
	Looks to me (i.e. Sound Engineer, DL) to be a cyc. Bit floody, would stick to Pebble Convex or Fresnel or Profile. Par64/56 also a bit more "pointy". Of those, Profile with the flags, so you can cut off beam on proscenium, or TV screen, but also take the focus out to give a soft edge, if it is desired, is the most flexible. LED profiles? RGB+W, 30W each, lets you control colour temperature (so video boys don't whinge, so much) and with high frequency rates no flicker (so video boys don't whinge, so much). Had a demo of some from ADJ rep this week, which looked cute, and cheap enough.
	Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd "Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"

mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 November 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 7801	Post Options Post Reply Quote mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2017 at 5:15pm
	haha, i don't think i will have issues with vidiots... as i said... LITTLE venues, little bands, little budget. No LED for this, have them already, tried it, looks crap.
	''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''

MattStolton Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234	Post Options Post Reply Quote MattStolton Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2017 at 5:53pm
	Big difference in LED though, especially early discrete 10mm leds vs modern COB or cluster. The edge is where to look, with COB the R+G+B all exactly overlap, so only white at edge. Shite ones will have seperate regions of R or G or B or R+G or R+B, etc, at edge. Equally the exact individual frequency of each R or G or B, makes a huge difference to the "quality" (°K) of the white, or any other colour rendered from RGB mix. Not all blue is the same blue. I like RGB+A, so I can easily "warm" the white at will. Leaves it brighter than subtracting out some channel, to lower color temp. Either way lampies are dikcs (sic). "Warm" white is 3200°K. "Cool" white is 6000°K. WTF. Talk about arse, elbow and not knowing what is "hotter". For anyone newb wondering WTF I am talking about, "Colour Temperature" is how hot you would have to heat a steel bar (in a vacuam) and the "colour" it gives off at that temperature. So 1100°K (about 826°C) is quite red/orange, put a blow torch on a lump of steel to see. 3200 ish is the temperature of a typical filament lamp, so white, with hint of orange/yellow. 6000 and up, as favoured by young drivers of Saxos, 106s, BMWs with additional chrome and wings, and Corsas, is the bluey white. Traditional Discharge lamps are typically 4000-6000, white, with increasing amounts of blue. Vidiots insist on 4000-6000, despite skin looking more "pleasing" in around 3000-3500. 4000-6000 to a vidiot makes it all shiney, which makes their HD recording look like a HD recording. LED can flicker like fook, at the same kind of frequencies that there "shutters" (yeah I know it is now digital) operate at, which really freaks them out. Much as Incandescent also flickers at 100Hz, the time between peaks, from which the filament starts to cool, is so short, the filament has hardly changed temperature, and is still banging out photons. However, if they know how to operate the menu on their cameras, all can be fixed. Still to meet a Vidiot who understood what happened when you pressed the menu button.
	Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd "Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"

mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 November 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 7801	Post Options Post Reply Quote mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2017 at 8:07pm
	thats really interesting about how the scale of colour temp was defined - makes absolute sense thinking about it. Learn something new every day, thanks for that . LED's i tried were RGBW units with combined lenses [so all four diodes come out the shared lens whatever thats called], coverage is fine but i just dont like it. Have bought some 650w fresnels on the bay and a 4ch dimmer... nothing fancy, all cheap, job done.
	''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''

toastyghost Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919	Post Options Post Reply Quote toastyghost Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2017 at 8:31pm
	Old Source 4 can be had for cheap all the time. Profiles are what you want.

mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 November 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 7801	Post Options Post Reply Quote mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2017 at 11:12am
	its rare anything will be going FOH though hence avoiding profiles, they will have to go near the PA SL/SR firing across front of stage, and have two stage floods to light the 'back' of the stage. Small venues, no rigging, ease of setup, minimum space.... Edited by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 - 26 March 2017 at 11:12am
	''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''