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Festival Cost plan (to VAT or not to VAT)

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rosssss224 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 February 2019 at 1:21pm
Submitting a cost plan / cost breakdown to a small indie festival. Should we be including VAT in each line?

Typical items will be:

sound system hire (£xxx)
van hire (most likely from say enterprise...)
diesel (£xxx)
decor materials from bandq etc...(£xxx)

We are not a VAT registered company just hobbiests but don't expect that doesn't make us exempt from anything. Most of these items will have vat paid on them at time of purchase. However things like our time / sound system hire I am not so sure.

Any help appreciated. And apologise if the wrong category.


Edited by rosssss224 - 15 February 2019 at 1:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2019 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by rosssss224 rosssss224 wrote:

Submitting a cost plan / cost breakdown to a small indie festival. Should we be including VAT in each line?

Typical items will be:

sound system hire (£xxx)
van hire (most likely from say enterprise...)
diesel (£xxx)
decor materials from bandq etc...(£xxx)

We are not a VAT registered company just hobbiests but don't expect that doesn't make us exempt from anything. Most of these items will have vat paid on them at time of purchase. However things like our time / sound system hire I am not so sure.

Any help appreciated. And apologise if the wrong category.

if your not vat registered there is no need to include the vat on your estimate or invoice. the 20% you pay out on goods or services has to come out of your margin.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosssss224 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2019 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by 4D 4D wrote:

Originally posted by rosssss224 rosssss224 wrote:

Submitting a cost plan / cost breakdown to a small indie festival. Should we be including VAT in each line?

Typical items will be:

sound system hire (£xxx)
van hire (most likely from say enterprise...)
diesel (£xxx)
decor materials from bandq etc...(£xxx)

We are not a VAT registered company just hobbiests but don't expect that doesn't make us exempt from anything. Most of these items will have vat paid on them at time of purchase. However things like our time / sound system hire I am not so sure.

Any help appreciated. And apologise if the wrong category.

if your not vat registered there is no need to include the vat on your estimate or invoice. the 20% you pay out on goods or services has to come out of your margin.  

That's fine and as expected. Hiring the rig / our own time is where I'm unsure. Just want it to be kosher / professional. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacethebase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2019 at 2:24pm
If you want it to be professional go VAT reg, Charge sensible money :)

Chances are is if you do this. They will just go with a hobbyist to save money. The festival game is totally bonkers. They would rather pay an extra £100,000 for a random artist than £220 a day for a monitor engineer that knows the difference between a 5D and a mix whizz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2019 at 2:28pm
If you want to look pro ....................... 

Along with your quote attach a copy of your public liability insurance & your RAMS  (risk assessment method statement) documentation.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2019 at 12:25am
Originally posted by 4D 4D wrote:

If you want to look pro ....................... 

Along with your quote attach a copy of your public liability insurance & your RAMS  (risk assessment method statement) documentation.




This. Technically you don't need written rams unless you've got 5 employees but it's good practice. 
 
Not just pro....  if you want to look serious and capable. 


Edited by JonB67 - 16 February 2019 at 12:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dylan-penguinmedia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2019 at 11:10am
if you’re being charged let’s say £2000 + VAT, (2400 inc) for something, and you want to invoice that on, you just invoice for 2400 (or ideally add your margin, don’t pass on trade discounts! If you want to discount, do that as a whole later).
Anyway, point being - don’t even mention the word VAT ANYWHERE on your invoice. Line totals then grand total - saves confusion. As soon as you start saying “includes VAT” they may well be expecting a VAT no off you etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2019 at 3:43pm
As above.  If you're VAT registered you should know what you're doing with VAT.  If not then ignore the VAT component and just do all calculations on the inc VAT costs.

If you're working with a customer who is VAT registered (and you're not) and you want to allow them to claim back the VAT on your costs, the only option is essentially for them to pay for those costs themselves.  However you can't add any mark-up that way so it only works with people you're friendly with who accept you'll make up for it elsewhere on your invoice.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dylan-penguinmedia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2019 at 5:02pm
If you work with people who aren’t VAT registered most of the time, the longer you can stay not VAT registered, the better.
If the majority of your transactions are B2B with VAT registered businesses, then get registered ASAP, even if you haven’t hit the threshold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shelfstacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2019 at 6:30pm
I agree with the above, especially if you're planning to make a large capital expenditure outlay - say £20k + VAT on lights and £10k + VAT on a  van.  You can claim £6k straight back.  This works better if most of your clients are VAT registered.

However, if you've made your own PA and your dad is lending you his van, it's not really worth the hassle.  By going VAT registered before you need to, you're essentially making yourself 20% more expensive to all of your non VAT registered existing clients.  That or setting yourself up to do cash in hand tax evasion jobs.  Not worth it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2019 at 6:42pm
In the seventies, I set up two separate hire companies---One that was VAT registered in my name and one that was not VAT registered in my wifes name.
This worked very well for obvious reasons and it was very easy to juggle work and purchases of hire stock to suit.
Nowadays with VAT rate being a lot higher it would be even more beneficial but I do not think that Mr VAT man would be very happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosssss224 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2019 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by ceharden ceharden wrote:

As above.  If you're VAT registered you should know what you're doing with VAT.  If not then ignore the VAT component and just do all calculations on the inc VAT costs.

If you're working with a customer who is VAT registered (and you're not) and you want to allow them to claim back the VAT on your costs, the only option is essentially for them to pay for those costs themselves.  However you can't add any mark-up that way so it only works with people you're friendly with who accept you'll make up for it elsewhere on your invoice.


This basically answers it all for me as a non vat registered entity looking to be paid by a vat registered entity (festival). Thanks a lot. Will work on line totals and leave vat out of the duscussion.
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