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Has anyone modeled the punisher with Hornresp
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kpippen View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:41am

Hello Everyone,

 

Over the past several weeks I have looked at about every subwoofer plan on the web. I decided that the “punisher” is the subwoofer I would like to build. I have read every thread on this forum and even a couple on prosoundweb in regards to this horn. I am very aware of the fact that the punisher cabinet was specifically designed by for the Ciare 12.00SW. This speaker is available in the United States but at a premium cost of $239.00USD. I am currently seeking-out other possible 12” drivers with similar specs that might work nicely in the punisher cabinet. I have downloaded David Jay McBean’s “Hornresp” modeling software and I would greatly appreciate any help with the horn modeling input parameters to match that of the punisher horn using the Ciare 12.00SW driver. Ultimately I would like to model the punisher cabinet with a few other possible suitable drivers.

 

Has anyone on this forum successfully modeled the punisher with the Ciare 12.00SW? If so, would you please post a screen shot of the input parameters…

 

I thank you very much for reading this post!

 

Kevin 

 



Edited by kpippen - 05 July 2007 at 1:11am
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Mircea Bartic has had good results with P.Audio SD12, which I believe should be more available in the US?
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It's not too difficult to work out the parameters from the plans.  If you're mainly interested in comparing drivers rather than an accurate plot of the actual Punisher then all you need is an approximation using a single exponential/hyperbolic flare.  I make it roughly 150cm2 throat, 2600cm2 mouth and a flare length of 230cm.  Rear chamber about 30L.  Front chamber not sure, only a few litres I expect though.

I've just been playing and it's worth looking at the B&C 12TBX100 vs Ciare 12SW
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Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Mircea Bartic has had good results with P.Audio SD12, which I believe should be more available in the US?
Hello toastyghost,
 
Thank you for posting! I looked at the P Audio Specs and I can't make the connection as to why this speaker is a good substitute?... It has a very small magnet (80oz), the response is 45-2.5KHz, and the Xmax is 5mm. The VAS is 41.4 liters which is closer to the Ciare 12.00SW than most of the drivers I have been thinking about. I wonder if that's an important part of the equation?...
 
Kevin 
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Originally posted by ceharden ceharden wrote:

It's not too difficult to work out the parameters from the plans.  If you're mainly interested in comparing drivers rather than an accurate plot of the actual Punisher then all you need is an approximation using a single exponential/hyperbolic flare.  I make it roughly 150cm2 throat, 2600cm2 mouth and a flare length of 230cm.  Rear chamber about 30L.  Front chamber not sure, only a few litres I expect though.
Hello ceharden,
 
Thank you for posting! Even though I'm an "old sound guy" I'm new to speaker calculating/building. Could you please post a screen shot using your example above. I'll would like to push two 8-ohm cabs (4-ohms total) on both left and right sides. I've always been a firm believer in that my amps should have 2.50 times the power requirement of the load for headroom. For example: 800watts X 2.50 = 2000watts. My amps can do 2400watts at 4-ohms in bridge-mono. I hoping to find a 400watt 8-ohm driver and to build four of these cabinets. 
 
The P Audio SD12 is $261.00USD and the B&C 12TBX100 is $259.00USD. I guess the Ciare 12.00SW at $239.00 is not a bad price...
 
Kevin


Edited by kpippen - 05 July 2007 at 3:24am
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P-audio uses the mathematical way of calculating X-max rather than some other manufacturers

in reality, I see no reason for Sd12 to reach the same displacement as the ciare 12.00SW

Like I said in my thread,
SD-12 loaded punishers were superb, but I cannot tell if they are better than ciare loaded ones because I never had nay of them
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Will LAB12 fit in a punisher chamber?

It is about 160 $
Marjan Milosevic
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LAB 12 will not work in the punisher correctly if I recall right
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Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

Like I said in my thread,
SD-12 loaded punishers were superb, but I cannot tell if they are better than ciare loaded ones because I never had nay of them
Hello Mircea Bartic and MarjunM,
 
Thank you for posting!...
 
Bartic,...I read your thread, viewed your pics, video, and WOW!... Your cabs look very professional!... I noticed that P Audio uses "Neodymium" for their magnets?... This must be why they are so light in weight?...
 
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

LAB 12 will not work in the punisher correctly if I recall right
I looked at the LAB12 and I would be very interested if any knows why this speaker would not work?... The power rating (400watts) is perfect in respect to what my amps can handle... I am curious: Are these available in Europe?... How much do they cost on your side of the big pond?... 
 
Thanks!
 
Kevin  


Edited by kpippen - 05 July 2007 at 2:51pm
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Hornresp predicts that the frequency response from the Lab12 is kinda spikey. Originally it was advised against as the price of the Ciare and Lab is pretty much the same over here. Should flatten out in stacks tho.

Wkr Johan
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Originally posted by kpippen kpippen wrote:

Hello Mircea Bartic and MarjunM,
 
Thank you for posting!...
 
Bartic,...I read your thread, viewed your pics, video, and WOW!... Your cabs look very professional!... I noticed that P Audio uses "Neodymium" for their magnets?... This must be why they are so light in weight?...
 


Sd12's have regular ferrite magnets

the new FL12LF (released in 2008) will have NEO
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LAB 12 needs a very small rear chamber. Around 17-18 liters to work correct in any horn loaded cab. they have a very loose suspension so if some model the LAB 12 in a punisher with small enough chamber maybe it will be better.

Can you try to model it Mircea.

I have 4 LAB12 drivers that i can try in a punisher.
Marjan Milosevic
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