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Measurements for Super Scoop
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16062024 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 February 2025 at 9:57am
Hi there,

I am currently learning Akabak and I designed and simulated the classic Super Scoop Plan from Mogale.

Now I would love to see some real-world measurements to see how close I am with my simulation.

Maby someone here can post some measurements from smaart or REW they did. Maby it is also interesting for others since I cant find any in the www.

What sticks out is that my simulation with the PD1850 is acutally reaching not as deep as the sims from hornresp. Classic 120 Hz Dip is the same. Wondering if I did something wrong..

Cheers,
C.
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bob4 View Drop Down
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Points: 1924 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2025 at 10:27am
Is this simulation for 1 cab?

Recommended stack is at least 3, better 4. 6 would be interesting too. 
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 16062024 16062024 wrote:


What sticks out is that my simulation with the PD1850 is acutally reaching not as deep as the sims from hornresp. Classic 120 Hz Dip is the same. Wondering if I did something wrong..

Cheers,
C.


Real world comparisons of PD1850 in Superscoop, as opposed to hornresp sims, decades ago, proved PD1850 is one of the worst drivers to be used in the Superscooper 18.

Read through the history of the Scoops forum, and you will see many posted about this.

Some of the best reported performing drivers in this cab are:

Void V18-1000
Fane 18XB (600W),
B&C 18TBX100,
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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16062024 View Drop Down
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Points: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 16062024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2025 at 1:52pm
Thank you for the clarification, Levyte.
Since it is not my purpose to build any Scoops I did not inform myself a lot.
I just took some famous designs and simmed them in Akabak to learn. For example for the Invader Bin and the HD15 my Simulations where really close to the real measurements. But somehow this Scoop-Design makes me unsure.

I simualted the Driver you named, but except some changes in excursion and small levels in some frequ.bands it makes not much of a difference. Im pretty sure that my Design in Fusion 360 for the Mogale-Plan is correct. Hmm....

Also out of experience I really dont think they will play to 35Hz in a Stack of 4 (based on my simulation).

Here are my new Sims :




Edited by 16062024 - 21 February 2025 at 1:54pm
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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I have found in general, Hornresp "response" sims for Scoops, unreliable.

However, the displacement graphs were very accurate.
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Points: 35 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HumbleDeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2025 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

I have found in general, Hornresp "response" sims for Scoops, unreliable.

However, the displacement graphs were very accurate.


Aight, I'll shoot my shot reopening this.

Exactly in what way is HornResp "off" from what you'd expect? I'm having a hard time understanding why and what. In what way is HR not accurate for a scoop design, and for what reason?

What part can I trust, what part can I not?
Can I trust my use of HR when it comes to finding theoretical minimums for stuff like high pass filters and low pass filters?

I simply can't "just accept" the answer of "it's not accurate" if I don't understand fundamentally why and what goes wrong. Unless I Understand the underlying reasons, I have no way of knowing what to trust, ignore, and where to substitute info for that from a different tool. 

Well, that, and I refuse to "just accept" answers that are one-and-done writing anything off. That's not my style. 


Edited by HumbleDeer - 10 July 2025 at 6:22pm
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Points: 8517 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2025 at 1:36am
Feel free to get Scoop prototypes built, try different drivers in them, and compare results with Hornresp sims.

Some of us here, know what we know, because we've been doing the above for approx 15x years.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the designer of HR, actually commented on this forum, regarding the problems with simulating rear loaded horns, in HR.

Icing on the cake, in 2009, I went to a driver/Scoop test, with the first Void V18-1200 in London.

Despite HR projections for the driver in various cabs, Due to my experience of HR sims versus real world tests, I could tell the guys which cabs were not worth trying the driver in, and which cabs would be optimal with V18-1000/PD1850.

And, I was right..


Edited by levyte357- - 11 July 2025 at 7:33pm
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Flowman View Drop Down
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2025 at 3:54pm
One of the best drivers that i have seen  performing in mogale super scoop is the SDS 2.7K, try to simulate and compare.
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Points: 8517 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2025 at 3:15pm
For those that don't know, I was the person who requested the creation of the "Scoop Forum", approx 17x years ago.

I was also the person, who requested the designer of the Super Scooper 18/21 "Rog Mogale", to provide the HR inputs for the Superscooper 18/21.

We've been talking about/modding/providing feedback, about these cabs for almost 2x decades here, but some some still join SP, don't read any of the Scoop Forum history, and are quick to post, their "uninformed" opinions.



Edited by levyte357- - 01 September 2025 at 3:19pm
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2025 at 1:19am
I not talking about you and the drivers which you said bredda, im from brazil and here we dont have this drivers available unfortunely, why are you so defensive??

I’ve been reading a lot about mogale super scoops and i use your informations and conclusions to compare the parameters and try to find a good speaker made in my country to load my super scoops, so relax and keep calm.

would be interesting if someone here try to do a test with the speaker that I said to compare.
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