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MT121 top end ideas? |
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studio45
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Joined: 16 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3881 |
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Topic: MT121 top end ideas?Posted: 14 July 2008 at 10:17pm |
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Hi guys, i'm building a pair of mt121. Have got the 12" horns done and am thinking about what's going above.
Has anyone actually built a cab containing the MT wooden flare, another small wooden flare for a 6 or an 8" cone, and a 1" comp on a horn? Have seen nuff discussion about this but no actual pics or plans. Would expect more pleasant sound from paper cone in say 600-5k range than prescribed solution of 2" comp crossed at 800 which i would need to use bullets or slots with to fill in 10-20k. Could then use DE250 above 6"/8" which seems to be noted as a pleasant and smooth sounding comp driver going up to 20k. Have priced up 12"/2"/bullets and 12"/8inch/DE250 and cost is very similar. It also seems likely I could mount the DE250 in the horn mouth of the 12" although I suppose I'd really want the 6/8 in there to get the whole vocal range in one place. My boxes have come out with 535x295mm space above the 12" flare, 670mm depth. I know the correct solution is probably to get some software and design summat, but I'm on a Mac and it's a battle! Could someone let me know an approximate horn length and mouth area needed for horn loading down to 500Hz, a suitable throat area, and whether a simple straight flare will be suitable for the MT121 box in terms of dispersion? Or inform me kindly that horn design doesn't work this way :) it discombobulates me somewhat.... |
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colinmono
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Joined: 10 October 2007 Location: Midlands UK Status: Offline Points: 1113 |
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 10:06am |
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You may have already considered this, but if not have a look at the Limmer 042 package
http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=25 6" horn and 1" horn designed for the DE250. I've got no experience with this, but I know Dom built a single Porn Horn 12" section + Limmer box and was pleased with it, so I would have thought a single MT12 + Limmer 042 could be a good combo. I think Boycey has built some Limmer 042 boxes too recently, see thread over on freespeakerplans. |
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josh
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 12:45pm |
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the dispersion on the limmper is much wider than the porn or mt122 if i remember rightly?
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colinmono
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 2:54pm |
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I believe from what I've read that the dispersion for both the Porn and the MT122 are determined largely by the HF horn; the 12" section is less directional.
Add to this the fact that the limmer becomes more directional as frequency increases (the 6" is at -6dB at about 45 degrees at 800Hz, the 1" is at -6dB at 45 degrees from 2kHz or so upwards) and to me, on paper, they look like they would work. I've only looked at the plots and studied the figures though, someone with first hand experience may be able to tell you more. I found Limmer polars here: http://www.loudspeakers.de/daten/limmer/lim-042i.jpg Porn horn polars are on the pro audio parts site. Try searching here for Dom's posts about the limmer + porn combo too, here's one to get you started: http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=203 |
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studio45
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 3:00pm |
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and it's the wrong size and layout, but cheers anyway :) reckon i could cut it in half allowing me to put the 2 horns side by side rather than having the 1 above the 6?
What horn parameter/s affects dispersion? throat size and shape mostly? or does every variable have an effect? and presumably my earlier request for basic design parameters can't be met? Do I need to decide on a driver first? come on lads let's push things forward (i build my boxes with wheels on innit )
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ceharden
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11851 |
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 3:24pm |
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Use one of Mykey's M8 or XT8 flares above the 12" then mount a 1" inside the 12" flare as you suggested before.....
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sKs01
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Joined: 11 April 2008 Location: sheffield Status: Offline Points: 1744 |
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 4:01pm |
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id say a 6" or dual 6" with a phase bung and bullets atop that would sound super nice, and was thinking of that myself for the future 8 & 12 i wouldve taught would have a lot of still usable frequency band which they both covered so a 6" would be more suitable and play higher meaning no comp necessary and you can just go straight to bullets, think HBL has a rough plan of this so might be worth asking him though finding a 6" you like the look of i would've said was priority 1
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You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself.
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studio45
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 7:47pm |
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Sounds good sks. i'd like to use wood for the flare if possible for cost reasons rather than buying a fibreglass moulded thing. so a good six like a Ciare 6mr8 on a short flare with a phase plug will get up to 10k you reckon? don't think I've got room for two really.
If I use a plug, (which i'd have to turn on an electric drill probably) there is no need to restrict the horn throat further, right? so inside diameter of back of horn will be about six inches and inside edges are flush with cone surround? Considering a construction of bendy MDF.....if i get going on this i'll post up some comedy pictures of "prototypes" (cockups) |
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sKs01
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 7:56pm |
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all things considered that sounds like a great idea now where did deadbeat post that bit on bungs...
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13054&PN=4, better explanation than i could give on exactly this idea... good luck and when your done ill have to acquire the plans off you
Edited by sKs01 - 16 July 2008 at 7:56pm |
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studio45
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 6:28pm |
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update: bendy mdf isn't bendy enough to form a 6" radius. i've just brok two sheets into little pieces. Cockfeathers! Another square flare it is then....and more bright orange reciepts in me wallet... I'm gonna start with the largest mouth/longest flare that fits in the box, and hopefully that'll be tuned too low and I can make it a bit smaller. Of course this means the phase bung's got to be more square too. New sander belts please!
So first horn length's going to be about 55cm and mouth area about 1062 cm^2. Throat area about....about too difficult for me to work out when I think about the phase plug! But the area of a 15.5cm dia (6") cone speaker is about 754.7cm^2 so i could say about half that? ie about 377cm^2? Comments from horn experts much appreciated :) |
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studio45
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 6:39pm |
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pics:
the front of the cab as it is now
with its lid off showing where this new little horn has to fit
side view
BREAKING WOOD MAKES MATT ANGRY. VERY ANGRY!!!!
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sKs01
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:53pm |
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did you ever get a chance to see how tony ASS made the flare for the mx 600 looks like it might be a good way to go about it, a square ish phase plug and flare just dowsnt seem like it will take to playing up high really sweetly http://www.freespeakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=355&PN=2
scroll down a fair way and theirs a photo and description, im sure if you asked him he could go into more detail though thats for a 12" flare im sure the theory can be used in this instance |
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