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Twin 18 P-Audio cab help |
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semtexsystems 
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 Topic: Twin 18 P-Audio cab helpPosted: 10 August 2005 at 2:03pm |
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Hi Ive been searching the www for ages and havent managed to find an answer to my problem, We have just bought 2 P-Audio subs model number p180/2242 where not sure on the best type of enclosure to build for them, i see the plans here for the P-Audio SD 18 but the sub spec is different, will this matter? if so any recomendations would be apreciated, Also as we have 2 would it be best to build 2 singles or 1 twin? we mostly play drum and bass with some hardcore at outdoor events heres the sub info http://www.p-audio.co.uk/products/db_product_1_5_p180_2242.h tm many thanks Ben |
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ceharden
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Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11851 |
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Posted: 10 August 2005 at 4:56pm |
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The type of enclosure I'd suggest would normally be different for the
two types of music you play. For Hardcore, a horn loaded cabinet
would probably give better results, although probably not with only two
subs. For D'n'B the emphasis in the bass is much lower and would
suit an bandpass (X1). Since you want to use your subs for both,
the compromise and the simplest solution is to build a reflex (ported)
cabinet such as the G Sub. The decision between single or double cabs
is purely your choice on how portable you want them to be, ease of
stacking etc.
What does the rest of your rig consist of? Two 18" subs for outdoor dance events seems a little small. |
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semtexsystems
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Posted: 10 August 2005 at 6:33pm |
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Hi As we are just building our system i think we will go for the bandpass design because of the lower end bass for the DnB, we will be getting more subs (and mids)before we do our next outdoor event, maybee some 15's or 12's to give more punch? I take it there is no sound difference in having 2 singles or 1 double rest of rig..... mmmmmm not too much atm as where just setting up 1) qsc-rmx2450 amp 2) a pair of peavey full range (white widdow cones) 3) sageline 2k amp if i decide to go for the bandpass enclosure do i need to recalculate the mesurements? or do i make it to the size of x1 on this site? cheers Ben |
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ceharden
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Posted: 10 August 2005 at 7:49pm |
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Although the X1 would probably work with your driver as-is, it would be
best to check the tuning. Have you looked at any software such as
WinISD for calculating the response of cabinets?
From the X1 plans on the site calculate the chamber volumes and port sizes then use them to simulate the cab with the original SD18 and your driver in WinISD. If both look similar, no changes will be needed. Dom has some X1's which have been altered in shape to make them easier to stack; you also might want to take the basic design and use it as a starting point for your own versions. The X1's won't sound good for hardcore as you need to cross them over to something else around 80-120Hz and won't deliver the punch you need. A few forum members have gone down the route of using X1's up to 80Hz then HD15's up to 160-200Hz with good results I believe. They'll be fine with the peavey's for most things however, and unlike horns are ok with just one per side. There's no real difference between two single reflex boxes stacked together and a double, in fact some doubles are exactly that with no internal connection. |
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semtexsystems
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 2:16pm |
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Hi again thanks for your response again Ceharden as i said at the minute we want deep rolling bass for DnB, the punch will come later with some 15's just spent about 2 hours looking @ winISD both beta and pro... whooooosh!! over my head it goes i keep getting errors with the values i input from the specs on the site above, theres about seven problems in total also I have no "fle" or "kle" value Is there any other software you can recomend maybee a little more user friendly for us inexperianced noobs...lol thanks Ben Edited by semtexsystems |
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ceharden
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 2:46pm |
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I will concede that WinISD Pro can be a little fussy when entering
driver parameters. Read the help, it explains how to enter them
without getting error messages. You only need to input a few of
the params to get basic results, it can calculate a lot of them itself.
While iit's not as powerful, WinISD beta is a lot simpler to use, I'm surprised you were having trouble with it. To start with, try using one of the included drivers to get the hang of it. Most other programs start getting more complicated again. * Start the program and select New from the toolbar * Pick a driver or enter your own parameters (new driver) * Select no. of drivers and type of enclosure then Finish * Play with the box size and tuning frequency With WinISD pro you can (more usefully) input the port length or tuning rather than just the tuning freq in the beta version. Hope this helps. |
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semtexsystems
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 4:16pm |
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Thanks i got all the values in with no errors and had a play about with the graph thingy but still did'nt realy know what i was lookin for. However i did find that the line on the chart was almost identical to the eminance 18 kilomax( within 2 mm), wich is a recomended sub for the g sub design on this site, will this enclosure give me the bass im looking for? if so i will just use the mesurements on this site and make a couple again many thanks Ben |
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rastaman
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 4:44pm |
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You mean the C sub? The G sub doesn't mention any Eminence driver as being suitable.
The fs (resonant frequency) of the two drivers is way different The Kilomax fs is 33Hz the P-Audio is 42Hz. The C sub must be tuned below 40Hz as it's for drivers with a low fs and it promises 35-90Hz, you can't get lower than fs from a driver unless it's in a horn (generally speaking). You're probable best bet is to take those values you plugged into WinISD, model the ported, 4th order and 6th order drivers, get the 'optimum box size' from the program and go from there. You'll probably need to tune the cabinet in the 45-50Hz range (ie it won't go any lower than this). I don't think sticking it in an unmodified C or G sub would be a good idea, it's not close enough to any of the recommended 18"s for any of the designs on the site, it's Qts is rather high, as is it's fs (read the speakerplans FAQ it will explain why) |
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semtexsystems
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 5:03pm |
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thats right m8 the c sub.. o.k. now im gona ask a big favour i aint realy got a clue about frequencys and cab tuning! i keep reading all this stuff bout it all and as i say earlier its straight over my head. if i email the .dri file i created to you or anyone else who knows what there doing would you be able to take look and maybee give me some box / port dimensions? i know this soundas a bit cheeky but i dont want to spend a load of cash time and effort on a crap cab that aint gonna sound any good. i dont have much to offer in return however if your into your DnB / Hard house / Hardcore etc... we will gladly host a mix or 2 on our site plus we will place a link to your site. check www.semtexsystems.co.uk theres not much on it atm as its still under construction but it is getting better day by day. tell me to pi55 off if u like but i dont know what else to do as we have had thiese subs for about a month now already and they still sit in there box waiting to start partying thanks alot ben |
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rastaman
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 5:15pm |
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OK, here's a plot I did in WinISD beta, just for the heck of it. I made
an alpha file as well, but it doesn't do boxes (do I need to upgrade?).
Looking at it, it looks like you would need a really large vented box
to get a decent response out of it.
 Thats just running with the defaults, you could play with the volumes and tunings of the 4th and 6th orders to get a smaller box with a higher tuned frequency. Either way, those drivers will need a fairly large box to ever go fairly low. What sort of frequency range were you hoping to cover? |
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semtexsystems
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 5:38pm |
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top man there is an update http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?download=winisdpro
as i say i dont realy know much about frequencys all i know is that we want deep rolling bass that rattles your spine. we mainly play DnB and we will be adding some 15's or 12's at a later date to give the system more punch. however ceharden recomended about 80 - 120 hz are the caculations you did for the 2242 http://www.p-audio.co.uk/products/db_product_1_5_p180_2242.h tm or the 2241 http://www.p-audio.co.uk/products/db_product_1_5_p180_2241.h tm we have the 2242's and ths frequencys quite different |
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rastaman
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Posted: 11 August 2005 at 5:49pm |
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2242's I entered the data from the link you provided, I can post a copy
of that if you need it. I think is you tuned it higher, you could make
the boxes much smaller. Don't forget I'm no expert either.
It looks to me halving the size of the box to 91.65l, without changing any other parameters, gives you a much less steep response curve, with a -3dB point @ 60Hz and a 0dB point of around 80Hz, the response isn't flat but it's within a dB, and I'm sure tweaking values would probably help. Edited by rastaman |
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