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184 Sub |
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Wolf 
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Joined: 02 October 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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 Topic: 184 SubPosted: 02 October 2004 at 12:10pm |
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Hello all, i am new here; thank you for that forum. I was searching but didn't found anything about my problem; so i post my first question. I want to build the 184 subs, but for the first time i would like to take my spare Eminence Kappa 15 LF. Is there a possibility to calculate that cabinet for these speaker? My hope is that i only have to change the ports length for the later updating to an 18" speaker. Second question: what do i have to do to complete this cabinet with an EV M18B? Is this possible? Thank you in advance Wolf |
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mobiele eenheid
Old Croc 
Joined: 15 August 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1563 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 12:23pm |
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That would give about the same result, as putting an car engine in a tank and espect it to work properly. If you make a certain design, is it not the most logic step to put in the driver it was intended for? The Kappa 15LF isn't a fantastic driver for 6th order bandpass (or basreflex for that matter). Due to it's Xmax limited (low) powerhandling. Putting it in a 184 sub, could only make it wurse. Cheers |
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Timber_MG
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Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1454 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 2:39pm |
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Actually IIRC the LF has about 5.5 mm of X-max (the normal Kappa 15 has
1mm) and can be used in large reflex boxes or a popular hybrid design
made for it by aw-audio (www.paplans.de.vu -> Subs -> ARLS)
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mobiele eenheid
Old Croc
Joined: 15 August 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1563 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 3:35pm |
Don't get fooled by the appearance of the Kappa 15 LF based only on it's T/S-parameters! In any (not unreasonable) large reflex enclosure it wont withstand more than an approximated 400 to 500 Watt before reaching the Xmax . That's kinda sad for a speaker rated at 600 Wrms. The SPLmax won't be that good either. At least not any better than most budgetspeakers will perform. By the way IIRC means? Cheers |
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Timber_MG
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Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1454 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 3:59pm |
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If I Remember Correctly. *don't fire-suit* That is pretty much about
what most PA woofers have for an X-max. Now I know that the T/S are by
no measure a complete representation of the performance of the unit,
but it's not significantly different from others in its price range
(apart from it being suited for large BR enclosures, where it's
relatively efficient, thus reaching xmax a little quicker and probably
with higher distortion than others). It's not a horn speaker in the
traditional interpretation of the word by any means though and is
presumably aimed at the value market segment.
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mobiele eenheid
Old Croc
Joined: 15 August 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1563 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 5:45pm |
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And back ontopic: Don't put the Kappa 15 LF in the 184 sub, please have mercy. It's a budgetspeaker and will in most cases perform like one. Cheers |
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Wolf
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Joined: 02 October 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 6:54pm |
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Hello, i didn't say clearly, what i want. Sorry. My Eminence is _not_ my best speaker and _not_ my choice for long. I only want to use that speaker in that bin until i find the right one. @mobiele eenheid: Which speaker, do you think, is intented for that cabinet? I find recommended: Beyma 18G 50 (Vas=210, Qts=0,325, Fs=40, Xmax=9), Beyma 18G 550 (Vas=212, Qts=0,37, Fs=36, Xmax=9), RCF (Vas=228, Qts=0,37, Fs=34, Xmax=6,1), Eminence Omega pro 18 (Vas=112, Qts=0,24, Fs=28, Xmax=4,8). The xmax of the Kappa is about 5,5mm, i think, that should be enough for my use first. I think you cannot say that the 184 sub can't get modified for another speaker than the recommended ones. I would like to find out which way to modify so i can remodify later. I know, that Kappa is a budget speaker and i don't expect the best results with it. Best Wolf
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Timber_MG
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Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1454 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 9:26pm |
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There is so much more to a speaker than just Xmax. Some speakers are
more suited for horn use, whereas others are generally better kept in
reflex enclosures (the Kappa belongs to this category). Reading up on
the FAQ elsewhere on this page might serve well to introduce you to
many such concepts.
The Kappa has a weak motor and as such is suited for reflex-loaded designs. One design that I have pointed out before (the ARLS) is quite popular in German circles and has had a nice 12"/1" top developed for use with it recently. Look at it this way: To actually build a horn cab is a ton of work and the material costs that go into a well built horn cab are generally easily equal or greater than the cost of the speaker it houses (even if one doesn't count time). A single or even two 184s won't go particularily deep (as horns go, they need sufficient mouth area to do that) and thus your speaker might serve you better in another cab until you are ready to build a couple of horns. And to start at the beginning: what music, what type of events, transport an issue? How manny Kappa's do you plan on using to tide you over? What else does the current system consist of/ future plans? Martin |
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Wolf
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Joined: 02 October 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Posted: 02 October 2004 at 11:30pm |
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Hello Martin, >There is so much more to a speaker than just Xmax. That is just what i wanted to say. >The Kappa has a weak motor and as such is suited for reflex-loaded designs. I think, the 184 sub is a kind of reflex design. The front and the rear is loaded by a "Helmholtz Resonator" (here as a "coupled cavity"), a reflex cabinet. This cabinet needs other values than only the Xmax. I never would use the Kappa for a horn. The last 20 years i built enough horns to see which speaker may work and which surely not. >And to start at the beginning: what music, what type of events, transport an issue? How manny Kappa's do you plan on using to tide you over? What else does the current system consist of/ future plans? Best Wolf
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JD01
Young Croc 
Joined: 23 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 819 |
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Posted: 03 October 2004 at 1:27am |
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You can put the Kappa15LF in a horn, but it won't stand stacking without tearing apart or getting all boomy... It will play well in a 130-140l BR cab. It won't play well in a BP6 or higher, because a speaker needs strong motor for that or it will sound even more boomy than a BP6 normally does.... |
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Timber_MG
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Posted: 03 October 2004 at 3:17pm |
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Argh, my bad. I thought the 184 was a horn sub. Must have been thinking about the 186... Sorry guys.
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Bespoke
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Joined: 20 August 2007 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 1886 |
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Posted: 24 September 2008 at 11:31pm |
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I want to build the 184 subs, but for the first time i would like to take my spare Eminence Kappa 15 LF. Is there a possibility to calculate that cabinet for these speaker?