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MT102’s with chocked up expos!

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roborg View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 September 2004 at 11:44pm
Everyone has mid-horns with phase plugs nowadays, so i've decided to retrofit a much tighter horn & phase-plugs to a couple of almost built MT102 sized cabs, anyway before i go any further & finish the first off & start modifying the second, tell me if i've just gone a bit mad.... I'm hoping to go from around 220hz to around 2.5-3K with these...
I did a sim on the horns & i reckon i can squeeze quite a few more dB's 500hz-2K by really restricting the throat & reducing the compression & rear chamber volume, here's the work so far....

and the back (not made the plugs to fit into the speaker cone yet...)
http://hosting.mixcat.com/toomuchbass/PICT2909_sm.jpg

the throat area is around 160cm2 & the rear chamber will be as small as possible (4 Litres for the whole cab rear volume seems good) the rest of the cab is basically an MT102...

don't hold back the comments/suggestions, i can easily remove the work & get back to the ole MT102 dimensions if ne1 really reckons these won't work

PS the T/S of the drivers are:
Fs : 67 Hz
Re : 5 ohms
Qms : 6,653
Qes : 0,192
Qts : 0,186
Vas : 28 litros (0,99 pés cb. )
Sd : 0,0314 m2 ( 48,6 pol.2 )
Xmax : 4 mm
Le : 0,28 mH
Bl : 17,37 T / m
no : 4,3 %
Mms : 28 g
300WRMS
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roborg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2004 at 11:45pm
erk the back....
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Rog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2004 at 10:15am

I will put in the perameters later and have a look.

The only problem I can see is that with that much squeez going on the throat should be round. The ideal for a horn is to start round and then end up square. This couples the driver to the air much better.

But its a good idea what you are doing and you should easly get to 2.5 KHz.

Rog.

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roborg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2004 at 2:18pm
Its cool you reckon it'll be OK for the higher freqs, i want to cross into the drivers as high as possible (only 1" exits)   I was contemplating making the throats round, but couldn't work up the courage to fit all the extra bits of wood to make the rectangular mt102 throat into two circles

cheers,
Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tb_mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 1:01pm
Centauri has worked with midrange horns and phase plugs

http://www.centauriaudio.com.au/diy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tb_mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 1:02pm
Also dont forget hornresp doesnt model the midrange + properly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mashgwan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 1:21pm

roborg they look good mate

could some please explain what a phase plug does and how it works

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 1:27pm
Have a Read on Rog's FAQ. Good Signal to Noise ratio on the topic (very difficult to find much on phase plugs anywhere outside the JAES)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mashgwan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 1:47pm

thanks i had a read, but im still rather confused. Coul you explain it in simplier terms please

 

cheers

 

mash

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timber_MG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 2:04pm

Well, the phase(/ing) plug's purpose as I understand it is two-fold. To reduce the front chamber volume (thus increasing the high-rolloff point) and to provide the horn throat with a wavefront as close to planar as possible, thus eliminating cancellations due to differing path-lengths from the driver membrane to he horn-throat. Compression drivers use elaborate multi-slit phase-plugs to make this assumption valid at higher frequencies too.

Martin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by mashgwan mashgwan wrote:

roborg they look good mate


could some please explain what a phase plug does and how it works



Thanks! The main purpose of these was to make the throat area smaller & also to reduce the front chamber volume. That should add extra sensitivity to the higher frequencies. As mentioned elsewhere the phase plug should also shape the wavefront from the speaker to suit the horn it's going into. In this design there was no real hard thought about that I just wanted to restrict the throat of some mt102's to cross out of them higher up (and more importantly to play around like a kid with my jigsaw & irritate the hell out of the neighbours, just that little bit more testing it late on sunday night )

cheers
Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2004 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by tb_mike tb_mike wrote:

Also dont forget hornresp doesnt model the midrange + properly


Yeah it's funny that, i wonder if it's because hornresp is only simulating the response of the horn to the speaker, not the horn + the response of the speaker.
For the normal MT102 design (with the speaker cones open to the world) i simply added the output of hornresp to the response of the drivers in a closed box the same volume as the rear chamber, but with the throat so restricted it's hard to see how to model the high-frequencies accurately using hornresp alone.
I've messed around with writing some akabak scripts for mid-horns, but at the end of the day i never felt confident enough that the script i wrote actually represented the cabinet i was building! I find Hornresp & aj-horn are good because they are quick & easy, they agree fairly well up until about 500hz i've found. At the end of the day i think it's best to look at other speaker designs & choose the funkiest bits of each design & make a super-funky cab!

have fun
Rob
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