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powerful 1-tower system

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ewbxbassfreak View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 August 2012 at 10:05pm
hi there :)

planning my first PA, read a lot, heard a lot, thought a lot.. now there are some options in my mind, and i need some opinions :)

planned is one tower about 6-10 kW, designed for hard electronic music 160 bpm and up. I have seen, heard and played many different systems, but only few could really deliver the special needs of those music genres.

a 200 bpm distorted bassdrum with a 1/8th offbeat running seems to be a very hard test for most normal designs... either low end or punch, its not often that i hear both in a clean way... 

so.. my choice would now be a combination of 4 186horns stacked together, some 15" kick cabinets and 2 Mid/Hi Tops like the mt122's. 

i found that the combination of the 186s with the kick cabs is a decent solution for the mentioned problem, affordable, and if powered properly they blow the shit out of your ears, but in a pleasant way :)


but yeah.. now i'm wondering which kick cabs would go best, which tops would you recommend, and yeah. even if you think this is a bad idea, tell me why hehe :)

thanks in advance, 
greetz and beatz :)
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Keen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2012 at 5:32am
sounds like a good idea. The MT122 will definitely work for you. For kick cabinets check out the HD15, Selenium HB1502b1, HB1505d1, Turbosound TSE-215, MKB-230, MKH-230 last 2 are dual 12" designs.

Sorry, welcome to the forum as well!


Edited by Keen - 18 August 2012 at 5:51am
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Keen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2012 at 5:48am
double post



Edited by Keen - 18 August 2012 at 5:49am
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ewbxbassfreak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewbxbassfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2012 at 6:06pm
thx :)

well, I think I will go for something like a tse215 for kicks. 4 pd186, 1 tse215 and 2xmt122 should be something nice to play with..

could be handled by 4 amps, 2 for subs, 1 for kick and 1 for tops ?

something else: people coming to our partie will most likely be very close to the speakers (those bassaddicts....), and I can remember hearing some mt122 tops being very loud and a bit aggressive when you came close..
i don't know how they where set-up and powered so maybe it's just a matter of good controlling, or should I look for some top that are more "near-field-style"?
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Keen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2012 at 1:22am
sounds good!

The point you make about the MT122 is interesting, I' haven't heard them so can't comment. But in my build I'm trying to work around this issue (if it is one) buy using a coaxial compression driver that can play down to 450-500hz. Also building each section on it's own so the comp can be interchanged between horns for indoor/outdoor use. I'll be using the 450-500hz horn indoors and a different wider dispersion horn that plays down to 700hz for outdoors. I feel the frequencies below 500hz wont be so prone to sounding dodgy up close.

Cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2012 at 12:00pm
I would consider a stack of 6 HD15s or similar cab per side (ES18?) a side, simple builds, one driver - once you have the jigs you'll be knocking them out in no time. If the rig is only going to be used for that type of hard dance I would not bother with sub beneath them - you may be surprised at how low they will go in a big stack.

You can always add some sub later if you think it's lacking. Maybe a nice big 21" bandpass sub per side under the 6 HDs, that would be different...

Anyways that is definitely the most painless way to get up and running for minimal cost and least building effort. As HDs will extend up to 160-180Hz as well you get a lot of play area in which to crossover to whatever midtops you choose. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewbxbassfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2012 at 9:12am

well I don't want to build sides, I just want 1 center-tower. And I definitely want to go 2-way on bass, I'm not one of the kick-only-fraction, I want sub & kick.

Also I don't want to combine horns and reflex/bandpass for bass, always seems to put up problems with the sound being different on different spots then, because the 21" bp would more or less give undirected sound and the hd's would blow straight forwards..

complicated build and a little bit higher costs are no problem, I won't build them myself, got a very skilled guy for that, and connections to the good prices, too :)
I'd rather spend a little bit more in the beginning, than having to push my speakers to stuff they can't do very well (letting HD's play from 50 to 180 Hz will  stress them a lot i suppose...at least they will get honky..)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2012 at 11:38am
Just put your 2 sides in one stack then, the more the merrier.

I would not worry about bandpass and horns in a pile, the X1/HD15 combo although getting on a bit is tried and tested and I have personally heard huge stacks sounding very nice indeed. When you get down to true sub then something has to give using FLHs as the horn length becomes a bit nuts as I'm sure you know. When it comes to matching bins as long as they have linear phase at the Xover point and you delay one phase appropriately (also in time) then you're going to have pretty good results whatever they are.

Bandpass cabs can sound messy due to high group delay but they can also be done well, and for a relatively compact enclosure you cannot beat extension down to those lower octaves IMO.

Sounds like you know what you want though! Go do it and report back. As far as mid tops go just stick to high quality drivers and you'll be fine. Depending on how high you run kicks cross to a 15 or a 12 and there are plenty of good horns out there. Might even be worth buying quality second hand.

If you're feeling strong you could always consider some X-Tros, with a double horn loaded 15" straight section in each one you won't be short of kick. Then stack them on whatever FLH you want to do the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ewbxbassfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2012 at 2:30pm
hmmm. we've talked a lot about the different options, and my friend came up with the H/R118 startec ported horn.
I'd think it would be even better suited for the job, due to its lower cutoff and extreme high power handling. putting 4 of those together would give us a compact stack with massive power. combined with 4 x-tros (maybe only the kick-section, and then some mid/hi tops on them) i believe this would yield some serious results, what do you think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2012 at 3:11pm


over our 186 we're going to build 2 mkh-230...take a look you will find 2 different plans we 'll build the easyest one...nice response to 80 to over 300 and is a double 12...fast as you want..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote olaf23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2012 at 10:44am
great idea
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