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Solid 35hz in 4 cu ft
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SonicXtasy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 August 2013 at 1:00am
I am putting together a smallish system for gigs that don't need extreme volume and where big cabs aren't appropriate. What I want is a cabinet that plays as low as my 2 X 18 Yorkville TX9S, has more punch, and is less than half the size and preferably 1/3 the weight. I will build 2 and there will be a 2 X 10 +1" on top of them. I have modeled some 18" reflex and most don't go low enough in a smaller box and worried that if I tune a 15" low that it won't have a nice tight punch. any suggestions would be appreciated. ThanksSmile
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Points: 1845 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 8:58am
Originally posted by SonicXtasy SonicXtasy wrote:


What I want is a cabinet that plays as low as my 2 X 18 Yorkville TX9S, has more punch, and is less than half the size and preferably 1/3 the weight.


Are you familiar with Hoffman's iron Law?

Tony Wilkes designed a range of very compact subwoofers, but if i remember correct they don't go down to 35.
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Tony Wilkes View Drop Down
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Points: 4835 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 9:38am
The Q15 has a similar response to a 18" cab tuned to 40hz and sounds very clean and fast (sic)

Used 4 off this weekend for some live bands and they deffo did not sound like a small box :) Ask the neighbours 50M away Embarrassed

Grab a driver off Assistance Audio and give one a go. Speak to Jack Arnott


Tony


Edited by Tony Wilkes - 27 August 2013 at 9:40am
www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Points: 526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SonicXtasy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 11:23am
[QUOTE=all bass]

Are you familiar with Hoffman's iron Law?

[QUOTE]
Yes, sorry, I meant to add that I did not need the same output as a double 18. I do realize that the efficiency will be considerably lower and that the output will also be limited unless I am using a 2000 watt driver with 20mm xmax. I was going to use 2 12" Alpine car subs per box. They give me the response that I want (actually lower than I need) in the size I want but the efficiency is so low I am running the amp a little into clipping (1250 watts/4 ohm) to get the level I need. I am looking for something in between two extremes.
I will sim some of the BMS drivers and see what I can come up with. I have been simming some of the Faital Pro drivers too which seem to take a small box but the extension isn't there either. 40hz just isn't low enough for most modern pop/dance music. If it was I would be building more THAM15's.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 11:47am
You will need to step down in size in terms of drivers. Nothing larger than a 12-inch. Eminence Lab 12 can achieve 35 Hz (if not lower) in a reflex box, however you will need to scale it in a 4-cubic foot box to confirm if the box is big enough.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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Tony Wilkes View Drop Down
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The secret is B6 loading, the Q15 is only 50L :) Choose a driver that is well suited and you will be surprised at the results.

I thought B6 loading was popular in the States?

Tony
www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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SonicXtasy View Drop Down
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B6, is that the same as ESB6 in WinISD? Doesn't the driver loose a lot of punch and impact with that tuning?
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" thought B6 loading was popular in the States?"

Only thing I design.

Driver Properties
  Name: 18 TBW 100
  Type: Standard one-way driver
  Company: B&C Speakers
  No. of Drivers = 1
  Fs =  35 Hz
  Qms =  8
  Vas =  175 liters
  Cms =  0.0842 mm/N
  Mms =  245.7 g
  Rms =  6.754 kg/s
  Xmax =  12 mm
  Xmech =  25 mm
  P-Dia =  392.5 mm
  Sd =  1210 sq.cm
  P-Vd =  1.452 liters
  Qes =  0.41
  Re =  5.3 ohms
  Le =  2.45 mH
  Z =  8 ohms
  BL =  26.43 Tm
  Pe =  1500 watts
  Qts =  0.39
  no =  1.764 %
  1-W SPL =  94.61 dB
  2.83-V SPL =  96.4 dB
-----------------------------------------
Box Properties
  Name:
  Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
  Shape: Prism, square
  Vb =  3.5 cu.ft
  Fb =  35 Hz
  QL =  6.414
  F3 =  32.54 Hz
  Fill = minimal
  No. of Vents = 1
    Vent shape = other
    Vent ends = one flush
    Av =  50 sq.in
    Lv =  24.71 in
-----------------------------------------
Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
  Fx =  35 Hz
  Qx =  1.93
****************************************

F3 =  32.54 Hz, Should handle 3KW on program material without exceeding x-max! (129dB at 50hz)


Edited by _djk_ - 27 August 2013 at 12:55pm
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Tony Wilkes View Drop Down
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Points: 4835 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by SonicXtasy SonicXtasy wrote:

B6, is that the same as ESB6 in WinISD? Doesn't the driver loose a lot of punch and impact with that tuning?


If it did there would be no way I could put up with it :)
www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Tony Wilkes View Drop Down
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Points: 4835 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Wilkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by _djk_ _djk_ wrote:

" thought B6 loading was popular in the States?"

Only thing I design.


I know you do mate, it is just that I read an article that said it was popular over your side of the pond but not over here.
www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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_djk_ View Drop Down
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EV was the first company to do a commercial design, circa 1974.

My first 6th order vented design (circa 1974) used dual 8's and a 15" PR, and was flat to 30hz in a tiny box.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2013 at 3:28pm

Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Originally posted by _djk_ _djk_ wrote:

" thought B6 loading was popular in the States?"

Only thing I design.


I know you do mate, it is just that I read an article that said it was popular over your side of the pond but not over here.


It really depends on what the aim is. Personally, none of my boxes uses the B6 alignment. I rather find a smaller driver to get the job done in a small box, which will appear large to a small driver than, using a large driver in a small box.

Some people are willing to sacrifice size versus performance whereas others are not.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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