PKN H8 |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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I tend to agree here with Viktor. If only you could peak inside the EAW Anya per instance. And then look at the price.
Most of the powered boxes are made with too much compromise. Some of the best selling mid grade one even use 2 ohm speakers in order to use as small amp as possible. Not to mention the ordeal you need to go trough when you need to service a module. Hence why i still resist jumping the powered box wagon. Doing it will save me soo much trouble designing passive crossovers, explaining people why they can not use any random amp and dsp to power our boxes. Why i dont have DSP setting for all the 749 different DSP units in existance, and so on. |
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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JBK
Registered User Joined: 03 March 2016 Location: Besançon Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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snowflake
Old Croc Joined: 29 December 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 3122 |
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP
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Pasi
Old Croc Joined: 25 April 2010 Location: Knutsford Status: Offline Points: 2732 |
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+1 We got enough pseudoscientist here anyway without him :D |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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Yet these same companies still can’t maintain their profit or growth needed to survive. EAW just got sold, for example, after a really difficult period. So what do they do? Go out in a blaze of glory with zero compromise designs? Or try to find efficiencies based on real world usage for the majority of users? This is always going to be the conflict of business. We all know the ‘three options, pick two’ idiom. I agree with you on principle but life is not that simple. And until I see a real H8 working, or real evidence of one beyond the same shill never posting photos, data, measurements or anything of actual value, I’ll continue to think of it as a lovely pipe dream that exists on paper and 3D renders. One that still needs DSP to be remotely competitive. |
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concept-10
Young Croc Joined: 17 May 2016 Status: Offline Points: 1293 |
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I didn't think it could get any worse.
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Pasi
Old Croc Joined: 25 April 2010 Location: Knutsford Status: Offline Points: 2732 |
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Well, considering that BOM cost is less than 10% from retail price anyway, it makes small difference. Bigger issue is the actual R&D, support, marketing, running the company etc. It's funny how everyone likes to get paid and nobody is willing to do charity work for 40 hours per week...
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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So you think U.Viktor gets paid for these posts or is it charity work? Well yeah, materials cost is only part of the picture. A tiny one, often. But if you can save a fortune on R&D for your high volume boxes by using an off the shelf amp module, DSP, with the support and toolset that comes with, then that aids your bottom line too. There are of course people out there doing zero compromise work. Many of them go bust, super early, often before getting a product to market. |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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No comprimise work relusts in expencive product that then have problem finding buyers. Nowadays the trend is to search for cheaper products, not better onece.
I have few fantastic products in my head. But when i do the math, i doubt many will be willing to pay for them unless some fance name badge is on the boxes. So as Kyle said, we do make compromises or we will close shop very fast. My comment above was more about how i feel about powered boxes. Nothing to do actually with the PKN amps.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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Sorry for sh*t stirring, just trying to get a rise, and, unfortunately, got one!
In all seriousness, given the love of fixing a box's compromises through judicious use of DSP, the amplifier is less critical. As long as it is sized enough to give headroom enough for whatever DSP "fix" is employed, no worries? A "good" amp will be able to run full power 10Hz - 30KHz into rated load, 24/7/365, and have massive power supply and spare output devices, and blah blah. But that costs money, either in development, or at point of sale. It does make some sense to match amp to exact requirements, keeps retail price affordable, if it does compromise longevity a little. A "good" manufacturer will charge a little more, and give a bit more headroom, for reputation of brand if nothing else, and stock spare modules. Much as my plate amp was a flippant sarcastic remark to annoy, there is some mileage in it. Consider the multi per box on a remote amped MLA box. I forget how many individual amplifiers there is in a full size MLA box, but it is a "couple", so would require quite a number of Socapex to drive each box. Just not practical for the fashion of long Line Arrays being used in todays market place. And then consider losses in copper, over the typical distances between amp racks and hang, and it does start looking a bit shonkey for rack mounted amplifiers. I admit MLA is the extreme end of Active boxes, a large number of big line arrays are passive, and big multis are run to hangs, but other than accessibility to amps mid gig, I can't actually see much benefit. Most manufacturers offer some form of TCIP GUI monitoring of amplifiers, plate or rack mounted, so any sort of "Amp Tech" can keep a close eye on proceedings from arm chair, with laptop and cup of tea in each hand. I just think that distributing power, balanced line and TCIP monitoring (or Dante the audio and control/monitoring over the same bit of Cat5/6) to a hang, or cluster of cabs, is easier than speaker multis? For subs, on the ground, close to amp racks, it can make more sense to go with big rackmount amps, and short multis, as long as the correct processing is offered by manufacturer, for whatever you choice of processor is. But up in the sky, real hard work IMHO. If the manufacturer is any good, then their choice of DSP and plate amp settings should be good for the box? If it isn't, no one buys the box! |
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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
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Sabbelbacke
Registered User Joined: 02 February 2010 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Anyone using a H8-18002U ?
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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