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P Audio p 150/2226
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nickyburnell View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 06 February 2005
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Points: 4410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: P Audio p 150/2226
    Posted: 15 November 2017 at 2:20pm
Reflex world so simple. Many thanks for your time.
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 April 2008
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Points: 2272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 1:48pm
The sim never shows you everything about the behaviour of a box. It's just a squiggly line and lots of squiggly lines look similar. I don't think you could guess the HD15 would honk by looking at it's SPL plot in Hornresp, but you know it will - Other bandpass horns have similar plots and don't honk so much.

If you really know what you're doing you could probably guess from looking at the input parameters and results, if a BPH will honk.

Tapped horns have a problem with the first big dip in response and they do need to be crossed some ways before that dip, but the big peak and especially the first small dip are almost always less severe in reality than in the simulation. In the measurements of the ROAR designs that I've seen, the first small dip hardly even seems to feature, the response just keeps rising before the big dip. 

I don't think Hornresp is optimal for simulating designs like the ROAR15. Some compromises have had to be made to model it at all.


Edited by Hemisphere - 15 November 2017 at 1:51pm
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nickyburnell View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 February 2005
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Points: 4410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 1:30pm
Out of my depth now. So if the SIM does not show the true behaviour of a tapped horn how do you come to a conclusion of its performance?   

I,m confused
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 April 2008
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Points: 2272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 1:26pm
I mean if you saw that sort of ripple on an FLH plot, then your concerns about them honking and not having any sub in singles (or at least in singles outdoors) would be warranted, so from what you said it seems that you were 'reading' the simulation with the understanding the box would behave like an FLH.

Edited by Hemisphere - 15 November 2017 at 1:27pm
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nickyburnell View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 February 2005
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Points: 4410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Group delay on the ROAR15 seems pretty decent, better than a reflex anyways and less ripple above 100Hz than many DIY tapped horns. You can easily EQ out the peak at 88-92Hz but on a lot of boxes that can translate to a perceived punch or thump that a lot of people like.


Yep, that's why the asian scene likes t18,s lol

@hemisphere. How do you mean I'm reading the SIM like....? Please elaborate. Ta
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 January 2007
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 12:45pm
Group delay on the ROAR15 seems pretty decent, better than a reflex anyways and less ripple above 100Hz than many DIY tapped horns. You can easily EQ out the peak at 88-92Hz but on a lot of boxes that can translate to a perceived punch or thump that a lot of people like.
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 April 2008
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Points: 2272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by nickyburnell nickyburnell wrote:

Yeah saw them a while ago. Couldn't help thinking all those sims were honky though?
You're reading the sims like FLH or BLH. It's not that sort of bin at all.

More like a Cubo or tapped horn. Does 45Hz in singles. Doubt it honks. Some builds documented on DIYAudio. You're getting a good 4dB+ sensitivity gain over a reflex, and in a stack of 4 it'll be like having 8 reflex with half the amp power.

Not without it's drawbacks obviously. The p150 may be stretching it for compatibility (will run out of excursion fast for one thing), and the boxes are fairly big, and it's a gamble on a new approach, but the THAM series are well received and Martinsson reckons the ROAR are a step up from them (he does seem biased in favour of his own designs though, as you might expect).

Edited by Hemisphere - 15 November 2017 at 12:15pm
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nickyburnell View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 February 2005
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Points: 4410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 11:41am
Pm sent
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APW View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 November 2012
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Points: 1174 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2017 at 11:33am
Hi Nick,
I have 4 x152Ltr cabinets here, when loaded the internal volume is about 136ltrs. At present they are loaded with Eminence  Kappa Pro-15a as I had them lying around. The cabinets are 13 laminate ply but NOT birch.

I quickly modelled your P-Audio's in a 136ltr box and they look quite good when the system is tuned to about 45Hz. Changing the tuning is fairly easy as the ports are 100mm drain pipe.



I actually built 10 of these cabs, 6 are loaded with Fane 18XBs (and have different port tuning) and the other 4 have the Kappas, My intension was to eventually load all 10 with Fane 18XB's and so the front baffle on the 4 15" are removable.

If you are interested PM me and we can talk. I'm open to sensible offers. If not they will be going on ebay soon as I rarely use the 15s and need the space .
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nickyburnell View Drop Down
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Points: 4410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2017 at 9:03pm
Yeah, got it looking nice in 125l reflex, so four of them it is.

I also won (for fifteen quid) two of the Studiospares 2226 thingys, will be an interesting comparison China v Taiwan :)
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DMorison View Drop Down
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Points: 1649 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2017 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by _djk_ _djk_ wrote:

Weak motor (high Qts).

I suspect P.Audio have done one of their updates where they keep the same name for essentially a whole new driver.
The current specs give Qts of 0.33, which is not high enough to be a problem for many applications - certainly fine for reflex.
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_djk_ View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 November 2004
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2017 at 10:58pm
Weak motor (high Qts).
djk
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