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First Speaker Build! HELP!
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mauisurf View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 December 2017
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Points: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mauisurf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 8:25pm
Thank You David! 

Im going to migrate over to the DIY Audio Forum to do some Studying About Passive Crossover Design! (good read so far and I think those 51 pages will probably get me up to a much better level)

Gotta say, you guys seem to think this project is a little more difficult than I do. 

I apologize if me thinking this is simple has offended you in any way. 

To me it seemed to be that I was building a tuned wooden cabinet with drivers and electronics attached. 

That to me is simple compared to say a space ship.... or automobile... or any other thing that has several different types of materials and manufacturing processes required to created the one thing. This is Wood, Glue, Nuts and Bolts, Polyurea, Drivers, Some Electronics. Most of the parts will be purchased completely assembled other than the box and passive crossovers... yeah still seems simple to me. 

Im here to ask questions to understand how difficult this project will be and what I need to learn to make it as well as I possibly can. 

Software for Speaker Design! 

Thats something new for me that I will probably need to invest time in researching. Even though I hear it has very little grasp on a design like this. From what I have read in other DIY Synergy horn build threads is that the software cannot model those types of speakers correctly. Is that correct? has anyone else found otherwise?

What type of software do you use and why? 

My original driver selection had specified the exact same speakers Tom had put into the SH96 I am trying to recreate. From what I gather from the very little information the rest of the board has given me... I should change as little as possible to get the best results. Considering my lack of knowledge. 

Original Driver Selection!

FaitalPRO HF144 1.4" Neodymium Compression Horn Driver 8 Ohm 4-Bolt



FaitalPRO 15FH500 15" Neodymium Professional Woofer 8 Ohm


FaitalPRO 4FE35 4" Professional Full-Range Woofer 8 Ohm


so its funny... after I had selected all of these just off the specs I had realized that the same as what tom put into the one in a shot I saw. Supposedly he now has eminence build a specific horn loading sub for him that works even better... 

So the MDF will now be 18mm Baltic Birch... even though we will probably to an MDF mockup considering 3 sheets of MDF is 1/6 the cost of 2.5 sheets of Baltic Birch. 

Ok! so back to DIYAudio for some light reading.
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Lennox View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 October 2017
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Points: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lennox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 8:38pm
Nope. Don't buy it. Gotta be a troll...
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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Points: 549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 8:43pm
Yea its just a box with speakers and electronics in it but theres quite a bit of physics involved, especially with multible drivers in same box.

Bass horns are easy (relatively), with the frequencies invloved being so large, small discrepancys in the horn path dont affect them. Higher frequencies are very sensitive to irregularities and produce odd effects in the sound.

If you alreay know this and feel confident then go for it, theres only one way of learning Big smile.

Good luck dude.

Edit: sorry the software you were asking about, there is Hornresp and Ababak. I know the former wont be able model it but Akabak is a very powerful program and might be able to, someone more learned might be able to tell ya, i dont have the skill/expertise to use it.


Edited by Mikkel - 12 December 2017 at 8:57pm
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JonB67 View Drop Down
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Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 8:44pm
I don't think he's a troll.

In your shoes i'd copy the design as closely as possible, use the drivers from the design you're copying and use dsp to start with.

Got to be the easiest route in!
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mauisurf View Drop Down
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Points: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mauisurf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 9:14pm
Jon I was planning on using this product. 

Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive Pro Digital 24-Bit/96 kHz Loudspeaker Management System & Crossover


Is there something else you would recommend to do the Digital Signal Processing?
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Points: 1376 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 9:29pm
Arguably that is the Low cost solution of choice.
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Jo bg View Drop Down
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Points: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 10:09pm
Hi
If you are committed to study, before the crossover look at horn theory and danley white papers on sinergys. A reflex is "just" a tuned box, here you have a horn with multiple entries all placed in order to stay in phase and sum, plus reflex ports and there is a bandpass effect too... There is a lot going on.
I second the suggestion of at least working out the crossover and eq needed with dsp before even attempting a passive crossover, if it is your first time.

Looks like even for the geniuses it takes a lot of trial and error and prototipying to get it right, don't think that speaker simulations and crossover software will give you the promised freq response at the first try..

Look at Phil b solar system thread in the 12volt Subforum, he built some very nice diy sinergys .
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lennox Lennox wrote:

Nope. Don't buy it. Gotta be a troll...
Either a troll or perhaps more likely, someone who believes they have a superhuman capacity to bend reality to their will, including getting away with blatant lies. 'Oh, I just selected these drivers for my first ever speaker build, with my unaccountably expert knowledge of ts parameters FROM THE RANGE OF THOUSANDS OF POSSIBLE VIABLE COMBINATIONS, and turns out I made the exact same selection as Tom Danley!'

Probability of truth? VERY LOW


Edited by Hemisphere - 12 December 2017 at 10:56pm
Phase 1: Post on Speakerplans
Phase 2: ?????
Phase 3: Profit!
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mauisurf View Drop Down
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Thank you Jo, 

Absolutely committed to study in my spare time. 

Horn theory will move up priority list. 

Ive been studying for a couple weeks now and I think Phil B had one of my favorite builds + another guy with a home theatre setup. 

Trial Error Prototyping is what I do for fun and i'm looking forward to the process. 

I have another friend who is going to be helping me create this and I feel confident that with enough research and problem solving it should come full circle to create something we are both happy with!

Maybe impress a few of you speakerplans.com forum trolls along the way Hug
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Originally posted by mauisurf mauisurf wrote:

Thank you Jo, 

Absolutely committed to study in my spare time. 

Horn theory will move up priority list. 

Ive been studying for a couple weeks now and I think Phil B had one of my favorite builds + another guy with a home theatre setup. 

Trial Error Prototyping is what I do for fun and i'm looking forward to the process. 

I have another friend who is going to be helping me create this and I feel confident that with enough research and problem solving it should come full circle to create something we are both happy with!

Maybe impress a few of you speakerplans.com forum trolls along the way Hug
Nothing wrong with trial and error prototyping provided you know where and how to conduct the trials and how to interpret and correct the errors. That part is a lot easier said than done if you don't wish to cook your speakers by the book.
Phase 1: Post on Speakerplans
Phase 2: ?????
Phase 3: Profit!
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mauisurf View Drop Down
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Points: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mauisurf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 11:29pm
Hemisphere,

please let me know what books you suggest I cook by.

Currently reading 

"Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement" -AllenB

and

"Horn Theory: An Introduction, Part 1" -Bjørn Kolbrek

Crossover does seem to be the simple part so far. Lots to learn.
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2017 at 2:56am
Perhaps try with the OEM sealed back 4” and the B&C DE880
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