DJ & Sound System volume levellers |
Post Reply | Page <1 23456 10> |
Author | ||
RC1 Sound System
Registered User Joined: 03 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 247 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
No, I've owned a few AVC2 and am fairly familiar with them. First of all the AVC2 is not very transparent, I've stood in venues running on them and cringed when hearing the AVC2 audibly kick in and out on the gain. Secondly, the AVC2 is basically performing as a leveller to limit the average level, and does not consider the duty cycle of the signal and how that affects the average level. If you have a fairly minimal dance track playing then the percussive instruments have low duty cycles and as such the "average level" is low compared to the actual loudness of the instruments. On the other hand a more musical track with instruments and vocals has a high duty cycle of almost constant sustained loud signal, therefore its "average level" is very high compared to the loudness of the instruments. So, if you have a device maintaining an average level, like an AVC2 or typical leveller, then the actual loudness of the instruments will be much more on a minimal percussive track than one with vocals for example. As I've witnessed while cringing many times, with an AVC2, and most other levellers, if you are playing a non-melodic dance track through them nice and loud with gain reduction and suddenly a vocal and instruments come in the leveller will audibly reduce the volume right down. Then when the singer stops the volume will come back up loud again, effectively modulating the volume of the track to the vocals, even when the vocals are not the loudest component of the music. Yes, the AVC2 does provide some levelling to a signal, but it doesn't do it very nicely, and for us trying to provide & engineer top quality sound systems for events its performance is simply unacceptable. If you have a noisy bar somewhere where the music isn't the main show, and you're just trying to put something in place to prevent too much noise upsetting neighbours then nobody will care how musical it sounds and an AVC2 would be perfectly suitable in that application. That's not what our device is for though.
Edited by RC1 Sound System - 26 April 2018 at 5:11pm |
||
norty303
Old Croc Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Eastbourne Status: Offline Points: 8806 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I thought that the Drawmer 2120 was much more elegant in this regard compared to the AVC.
Aren't you just looking for an expander to deal with the low level bits, and something like the 2120 to deal with the upper limits? How are you dealing with the natural light and shade dynamics of music though? Some passages are deliberately quieter and not something the act/DJ would want 'levelling'. I found the AVC was horrible when being pushed really hard by the DJ (most attenuation lights lit - every gain and EQ knob on mixer turned to 5 oclock to get more volume out of the ever quieter system...) when you get a breakdown in the music, the lack of bass means the mids and highs suddenly scream at you due to the high gain but lack of real energy, then the bass/kick comes back in and you hear the first note extra loud before it all clamps down really noticeably... |
||
My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers
|
||
RC1 Sound System
Registered User Joined: 03 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 247 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I agree, the Drawmer sounds much better than the AVC2. However, the Drawmer is basically just a slow acting limiter designed to protect the sound system, it is intended to be one of the final processors to come in and limit when the system is being driven too hard. It is not designed to consider the perceived volume levels and sound from the point of view of the listener's enjoyment. That's the difference, our device is designed to manage the gain for the benefit of the enjoyment of the listener and the performance of the show, as opposed to a limiter which is there to just reduce gain when it gets too loud. As you point out, a leveller would spoil quite a lot of tracks by trying to level out between the quiet and loud sections, whereas our device (like an engineer) tries not to do that. Our device is not a substitute for system limiters, it is there for a different purpose, more of a substitute for an engineer when the engineer has to be attending to matters elsewhere, and as such is I feel a very unique product. ***** - A quick note to your comment about the AVC2 "pumping" the level really badly when the bass kicks in and out - there is an internal jumper in the AVC2 you can set to put an "A weighted" filter into it's sidechain, which reduces the pumping effect and improves it significantly in that regard. Still not a very nice bit of kit though in my opinion!
Edited by RC1 Sound System - 26 April 2018 at 6:52pm |
||
nickyburnell
Old Croc Joined: 06 February 2005 Status: Offline Points: 4410 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Solution for crappy mp3.
Technics SL1200/1210 Coat on.......... |
||
It's everything, not everythink!
|
||
Racks&Stacks
Registered User Joined: 10 February 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 204 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
brand/model unfortunatly wasnt in my emails, but it was rented through http://www.bll-vt.de/
Edited by Racks&Stacks - 26 April 2018 at 9:02pm |
||
smoore
Young Croc Joined: 30 March 2011 Location: N.Devon Status: Offline Points: 937 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Would a limiter that is almost exactly the same as a Drawmer but programmed for phons (Loudness) rather than voltage (I think?) work for you? I had a similar idea in mind for a while but not the skill set to approach making one..
Sam
|
||
madboffin
Old Croc Joined: 03 July 2009 Location: Milton Keynes Status: Offline Points: 1537 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
My old Compellor works nicely in this application. Followed if necessary by the Dominator if you really want to hammer things.
Both picked up fifteen or twenty years ago for about £100 each from people who couldn't work out how to use them... Edited by madboffin - 26 April 2018 at 9:59pm |
||
RC1 Sound System
Registered User Joined: 03 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 247 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
We've been using the Compellors (320A) at our events for the last few years, I agree it's about the best offering out there at the moment, but it still doesn't quite get it right as it can't understand duty cycle and is often affected by sub bass. But in the absence of anything better it's great!
|
||
RC1 Sound System
Registered User Joined: 03 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 247 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Not really aiming at being a limiter, more of an alternative to an engineer riding the faders, you would probably still ultimately need limiters in the system as this device has no interest in preventing clipping, it is only interested in the experience of the listener. Of course it would need to consider loudness not voltage, but as mentioned in above posts needs to consider a lot of other factors as well if it is to perform similarly to a real engineer. That said, if the Drawmer did have a filter in it's sidechain so it triggered on loudness rather than voltage it would improve it for that purpose, but it would still in every other way behave like a conventional limiter/leveller.
|
||
Dub Specialist Sound
Old Croc Joined: 15 November 2013 Location: Smethwick Status: Offline Points: 4873 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
volume levellersthese normally wort really well |
||
Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...
|
||
gen0me
Young Croc Joined: 20 February 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 999 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
There used to be a solution on CDJ1000mk3. With crappy mp3 cdj after 20seconds showed error and stop playing. Althought I think it was like mp3 industry mechanism. Those mp3s are clearly bad coded. They have multiple 00 bits in their coding(empty bits) So basicly you need leveler and after limiter. Limiter will work on fast changes until the leveler will lower level as the engineer would under the threshold of a limiter.
|
||
I appreciate every like :)) https//www.facebook.com/genomesoundsystems
Mixes: https://www.mixcloud.com/gen-ome/ |
||
Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7199 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
+1 |
||
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
|
||
Post Reply | Page <1 23456 10> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |