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4 channel class D amplifier on sub bass duty?

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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 8:12am
Heard the Linea's on sub duty Saturday, very impressed even compared to the CA18s, but as you say not cheap.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 9:40am
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

no 4ohm driver business here, all are 8ohm nominal lev..


Hi mate, 4 ohm driver comment, was for OP.

Have always considered what 9001 would be like, driving 2x 4 ohm drivers per side..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 9:50am
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

got plenty of sae 4ch ones.. guess i know their limits quite well by now.. other "cheap" similar ones are no exception to the common rule imo... compare the same cabs on say k10s or k20s and let me know your thoughts.. - specially with heavy cones and strong force/load on the cone the 4ch jobbies lose control quickly in comparison, imho.. 


I think you need to try a Saturn 10 Alex,  or the new higher power version ;)

guess i am sorted now re. sub amps.. ;) 
I am not saying 4ch amps cant do bass 40ish hz up, pqm13/tsa 4-1300 etc. do bass 4ohm nominal without major issues, even on all 4ch but most will struggle delivering low notes at low impedances and rather heavy cones - high current - though , the saturn10 will likely be no exception as its basically similar design and layout as almost all 4ch chinese jobbies, lab based, no pun intended! Happy to A/B your Amps driving 8 Orbit3s vs pqm13s, k10s, k20s anytime mate - in my books almost all 4ch amp are mainly suited for mixed loads though, which makes sense to me.. 




No, the Saturn 10s are nothing like most Chinese 4 channels, nothing like a Lab / FP biased amp at all... they are class D not class TD, completely different, and they sound different to all the class TD amps ive tested, imo much tighter and controlled on bass.

Lots of nonsense talked in this thread...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 9:58am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

almost all "cheap" lightweight class D 4ch amps are not designed to do sub duty on all 4 channels.. they simply struggle to deliver the required current.. (either pop fuses or pop internally, depending on design/quality..)


Please say this again, some people here, really expect free lunch.

You've got 4x 4 ohm drivers ?

Drive 4x drivers with Crest CA18, Crown Macrotech MA5000VZ, or 1x driver per channel with 2x JBL MPX1200/QSC 4050HD.

No cheap 4x channel Class D, will come near any of the above combinations.

Ive got a "cheap" class d here that will spank all of the above driving 4 x 8 ohm drivers, might not give you that nasty distorted sound you get from a VZ though...  Just because you tested a couple of lab clones years ago that blew up does not mean there is nothing out there that will do the job.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 10:20am
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Ive got a "cheap" class d here that will spank all of the above driving 4 x 8 ohm drivers, might not give you that nasty distorted sound you get from a VZ though...  Just because you tested a couple of lab clones years ago that blew up does not mean there is nothing out there that will do the job.   


The OP has 4x 4 ohm drivers.

A number of experienced Macrotech repairers, have informed me, much of the bad rep/distortion reports from MA5000VZ, is due to amps not repaired with official Crown O/P transistors.

Don't get me wrong, personally I would only buy QSC, Powersoft for sub, but for 2x 4 ohm drivers per channel, MA5000VZ, with full suite of "correct" O/P transistors, would sound decent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 10:26am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Just because you tested a couple of lab clones years ago that blew up does not mean there is nothing out there that will do the job.   



Would be great if the "Superior" lab clones have improved. First time I heard one, sub notes had me almost dribbling...

But few years ago, for approx 12x months in London, loads of crews bought into various Lab Clones, and pretty much everyone of them had amps go down during gigs. Many of these crews have moved on to K20s, some now on X4s.

So to me, save up for Powersoft, and life is easy.


Edited by levyte357- - 12 July 2018 at 10:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 10:09pm
[/QUOTE]

Ive got a "cheap" class d here that will spank all of the above driving 4 x 8 ohm drivers, might not give you that nasty distorted sound you get from a VZ though...  Just because you tested a couple of lab clones years ago that blew up does not mean there is nothing out there that will do the job.   
[/QUOTE]


Pray tell?  What is this amp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2018 at 10:20pm
its one he is trying to sell...

even top flight multi-channel amps like powersoft x series benefit hugely by mixing loads - on an X8 i would recommend 50% mid / high channels and 50% bass/ sub. Same with X4's. 

Im always amazed how small a proportion of the overall budget people allocate to their amplifiers. Large speaker stacks may get more interest, but without the right amps behind them its all rather pointless.
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2018 at 8:24am
Lets look at this from an engineering angle.

Why does a 4 ch amp not do it but a 2 channel (ie iNuke) can?

If the 4 ch amp has completely separate modules like the JAM one then why not?
Is it because of the shared capacitance? If so then why not stop all this 1u bull and make it 2u with another 50 quids worth of capacitors? Fashion? 1u is silly, it's not needed, damn things weigh nothing anyhow so what is wrong with 2u? If Powersoft had made all theirs 2u then 1u would not be in vogue as much. So in reality something like a 4 chan Class D made into a case that was big enough with more capacitors and separate power supplies would be possible? Hey maybe two mains inlets?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2018 at 9:11am
Its not just down to how many capacitors thats more to do with its burst capability than what level of current the supply can deliver.

There seems to be a few people saying "i tried xyz 4 channel amp and it wasent ideal for running heavy bass on all channels, so all other 4 channels must be the same..."    Not all 4 channel amps are built the same, some have higher long term power capability vs burst capability than others, eg the 44m20 supply will give about 3KW long term, the JAM Q10 will give over 1KW per channel iirc so over 4KW total, from memory i think it was around 1.4KW per channel i will check, this new 4 channel im testing has a supply rated at 7KW for a 16K amp, its not the only factor, burst / storage capability and output stage efficiency also matter, the point im making is not all amps are the same.

The original question was can a budget 4 channel amp power 4 x 4 ohm 700w bass drivers,  there are many out there that can, you dont need a powersoft K10 / K20 for that...  

Im often amazed at how people think they must have a expensive (normally Powersoft) amp to do job (like power 4 x 700w bass drivers) when there are many very decent budget alternatives,  more expensive does not equal better if its overkill for the application, And yes CSG i am selling amplifiers, much like you are selling powersoft amplifiers :)


Edited by Timebomb - 13 July 2018 at 9:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2018 at 1:44pm
X4 is nowhere near to 2x K10 once really need to deliver power despite marketing bureau suggest.
Even on 4 Ohms.
You need to -very carefully- split frequency bands across four channels to have acceptable dynamics and not collapsing power rails.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2018 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

IAnd yes CSG i am selling amplifiers, much like you are selling powersoft amplifiers :)


TB, which lab copies are you selling?

In terms of original manufacturer/distributor?

Any pics of innards?

EDIT:After 2x years waiting, research, I once bought 4x FP10000Q lab copies, as they were some of the higher specified/better built.

PSU on one of them still died, powering 1X Fane 18XB, on 1x channel.

So that was the end of trying Lab copies for me.



Edited by levyte357- - 13 July 2018 at 2:27pm
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