12 line array cab plan |
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Racks&Stacks
Registered User Joined: 10 February 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 204 |
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I don't know how any of that stage's systems were tuned aside that the danley system had to have some bass removed to comply with the trade fair sound police. While this thread creeped a little bit into sub territory, 50 hz would have been covered by different speakers than the tops, and you would be one the few people to say that danley's subs suck. The harmonic design system was demonstrated with one and 2 tops per side on, and I thought it sounded noticeably worse with both on. I was surprised how much one speaker punched above its weight, but I didnt think it sounded better than the J3. The only other acoustic memory I have from those days was that the funktion one demo had really loud subs compared to everyone else but their tops sounded like garbage. The purpose of my video was to demonstrate how the danley speakers held up over distance and how much quieter they were behind the stack/hangs, since such videos were not common
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gen0me
Young Croc Joined: 20 February 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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There wont be any noticeable. They are low frequencies. Problem is with high frequencies. Up to 2khz you can do with waves really a lot for 8" for example. Anyway if you compare this solution to other presented it is still years ahead:) PS also this circumference is probably different that the one that appears in phase plugs. There is no resonance excitation here.
Edited by gen0me - 09 January 2019 at 10:31pm |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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Those Harmonic Desing tops have 4 HF drivers. Not one.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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System sounded so bad that i even called Mike Heden (Danley's owner) to tell him to do something about it because people were reacting very bad to the sound. There is a talk about this here on the forum from that time. It wasnt only me but pretty much everyone i talked with at the show. The SPL limmits are set, but they are measured A weighted, which means you can push the subs as loud as you like to. Hence you comment on the F1 demo. They are shaking the entire area every year. So that is not an excuse. |
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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Just to set the things clear, the year before that they had a different setup that sounded excellent.
But the one from 2017 simply sucked.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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gen0me
Young Croc Joined: 20 February 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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They have to... If those basses would be fast and punching then how would you time align them to the Jerichos precisely? Add another crane?
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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I find with a single 2nd order Allpass at 150Hz, with a Q of 1.5 works pretty good in a similar configuration, myself But I agree with Marjan sadly, it wasn’t a great demo. The guys used APL TDA for tuning I believe and I’m wary of any software that claims to be magic and only needs you to wave your arm around your head a few times at one position to get ‘perfect sound’ |
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MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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I have never claimed anything else! I am well aware that my line length is not even close to be long enough to generate any cylindrical wavefront effect. I think max hang hardware limit is 16 boxes, and even that is not going to be long enough to amount to much! With HF being 10degV, it almost forces you to form spirals/curves to minimise HF clash between boxes. But, with a bit of EASE planning, bit of listening and tweaking, easy to make a pleasant noise, for the small scale gigs I do. And 1 man deployable! 3 HDL6-A to 1 8004S-A seems the ratio of choice And they are only 2 x 6" per box (2" VC!), with 1" throat, 1.7" VC HF on a waveguide doing 900Hz and up, 100x10deg. And their mostly plastic! Proper willy waving numbers! I can hear you dry wretching from here! For the money; awesome - convenient and good enough. If I had big events and a huge budget, would have obviously gone bigger and better, but for where I am right now, gets me back into the pond. |
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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
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MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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Saying all that, nice article in LSI this month about point source still being relevant.
Admittedly, bit of a puff piece about Autograph, using KV2, doing some tours to "provincial" theatres, but it is the LSI mag! However to quote p22 of LSIonline Jan 2019 edition:
He also mentions that most small theatres don't have fly points for line arrays anyway, so point source is easier to move from venue to venue. Back to what should be common sense really, right tool for the job, and LA is just one tool. |
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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
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gen0me
Young Croc Joined: 20 February 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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Its no point to mount it on height of the heads either. If you want even coverage it has to be far from audience. So placement reflects coverage.
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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Autograph aren't the only ones talking about it https://www.psneurope.com/business/danley-sound-labs-uk-plans?fbclid=IwAR0HHf536S7GQMfRzE6delCMs-kiqMhnGFv1CGuyBx-q9g3K53H6xa014BA And I get you on the RCF, it's a tool for sure, and it doesn't sound bad, and the rigging is pretty slick / invisible which sadly is what matters more to most events than the overall tonal quality. Flexibility makes more business sense even if it doesn't make much sonic sense. Since we're talking about the HDL6A, how about we look at some data? All single box, driven with AES Broadband signal: Horizontal isobar Vertical isobar Transfer function Horizontal off axis freq response deviation Same but vertical Directivity index Max SPL (although it seems they have entered max SPL data as sensitivity and vice versa in the GLL file, curious if that's a trick to make plots look better in Focus 3...) Make your own conclusions as to the effectiveness of the horn and how well the box complies with it's stated nominal dispersion or line array theory. I'd be applying a LPF at 16KHz myself, to avoid that splashiness above. |
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Racks&Stacks
Registered User Joined: 10 February 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 204 |
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F1 stage was in the the inner yard, the other demo stage was close to a hotel, which ironically I assume was full of trade fair attendees, anyway. My understanding was that the danley stage still had something like 16 dB headroom and one of the demo ops said they had to turn down their subs. The last I had done the outdoor demo stage walk was over 10 years ago, which was when it was in the middle of having sex nowhere except close to houses where people lived next to the trade fair grounds, so was surprised at the amount of bass F1 was allowed to push, especially because none of the other systems in the inner yard pushed their bass that much.
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