LR 48db/octave |
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corell
Young Croc Joined: 19 August 2013 Location: Berlin Status: Offline Points: 1161 |
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delay the red trace (Hogs) a little and flip polarity. +-30° is perfectly fine and will give you 5db summation or more. |
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king david
Young Croc Joined: 17 January 2007 Location: italy Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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this is HOG 30-80hz 24db LR, ES18 45hz 18db but-130hz 24db LR
Edited by king david - 21 January 2019 at 9:57pm |
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king david
Young Croc Joined: 17 January 2007 Location: italy Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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this is how technicians made their setup on my system, phase and response of the sub(HOG 35hz 12db but-100hz 24db LR), kick (ES18 12db but 68-100hz), mid top (smt212 12db LR 100hz).
actually both listening music and looking at this midtop and kick are ok, but hog isn't, but change of filters or eq would mess phase completely Edited by king david - 21 January 2019 at 10:00pm |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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That technicians setup looks to me like they tried to measure indoors, or changed the reference delay between measurements. It's not good, anyways, in short.
Charlie Hughes of Excelsior also recommends this method, it at the least gets you in the ballpark and lets you play with filter types/position/slope
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king david
Young Croc Joined: 17 January 2007 Location: italy Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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YES, CANT USE IT, AND THANKS FOR THE TIPS these are unfiltered hog and es18 Edited by king david - 21 January 2019 at 11:12pm |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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Ok this suggests a polarity flip on the Hogs and delaying them to the ES18, because the Hogs have the gentler slope.
However I don’t tend to use REW for this task, so I’m not sure if the reference delay is the same for both measurements. It looks like it is, but they also both start at negative time offsets. Have you already used up a 30 day trial of SMAART or SysTune? |
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gen0me
Young Croc Joined: 20 February 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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You have your answer:
How do you want to put them together? You know that under 75hz time integration of the sound is not important. Sounds are or parts of the kick or just basslines. There are no harmonic parts of the higher notes. That makes it pointless to time-delay them on impulse responses. Just on crossover frequency. Honestly well made setup with hogs + kicks plays it this way: kick is always played separately not affecting hogs at all during initial fast part.
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king david
Young Croc Joined: 17 January 2007 Location: italy Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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Well i am just doing what toastyghost suggested...time aligned them using tweeter as reference and started to put filters.
are You suggesting to avoid overlaps and have steep 24db crossover or even 48?
Edited by king david - 22 January 2019 at 10:51am |
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gen0me
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Yes avoid overlaps.
If you play them separately after puting filters time align them. If you try them together: first time align them than put filters than time align and repeat. How exactly did you time align them? On those impulses?
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toastyghost
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Sorry gen0me but you’re flat wrong on this one.
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gen0me
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Where?
You cant make those impulses cover themselves. Other way you can make 75hz (on acoustic crossover) cover itself on both boxes. And have in mind that those boxes group delay mountains are going totally crazy around. Edited by gen0me - 22 January 2019 at 3:19pm |
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toastyghost
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You’re not asking for the entire impulse to overlap.
Have you ever aligned a real system? Just curious. The slopes without filters are almost 180 degrees out and tangents do not match. If one is polarity flipped, they will overlap for a part of the traces. You then delay the gentler slope to make the tangents match as much as possible through one octave either side of the intended acoustic crossover frequency. It is best to do this with filters in place, but with subs and most measurement tools there is insufficient data to get good measurements especially near any kind of boundary. Going this way at least gets in the ballpark. You then apply your filters, re measure and compare, and adjust further if necessary. The mic and reference delay should remain stationary for the entire process. So should cabinets. |
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