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12 v simple system for reggae |
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Jay 
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Joined: 28 January 2019 Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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 Topic: 12 v simple system for reggaePosted: 28 January 2019 at 9:49pm |
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Hi advice and help please!
Firstly I just want to say that I am a complete novice I didn't even know what crossover was until two days ago ! hopefully after completing this journey I'll be able to help others on this forum to. I'd like to build a small reggae sound system just for me and my mates to have a dance (we live out in the wilds in the west Wales so have limited opportunities to get to reggae gigs , and we're all scared of the cities 😬) So saw this on the Internet and it's the sort of thing I had in mind , https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vN6PjvALAc8 Where would I start , to make something like this ? I have also been looking at a Boominator but to me it doesn't seem quite in the spirit that I'm trying to create , Thanks very mutch in advance jay Peace and love |
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JonB67
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Joined: 22 April 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1376 |
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Posted: 28 January 2019 at 10:26pm |
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looks like the eminence 12inch scoop plans?
Ive never built any, only seen the plans. Can't help more than point you in the right direction. There's a ton of information on 12v systems on here. Get googling or searching this forum and you'll be reading and learning loads. I found it interesting and have no plans to build one! Sure someone will be kind enough you link you to some useful threads.
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studio45
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Joined: 16 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3864 |
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Posted: 29 January 2019 at 2:52pm |
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Search for Jim Frize's "Yout Scoop" which takes a 10" driver, and seems to work very well in 12v applications, by all accounts.
Bear in mind that if you want bass like Iration or Channel One, you are going to be carrying a *hell* of a lot of batteries and speaker boxes into the woods, so just manage your expectations and you should have a great time :) Paging horns for midrange are great for SPL vs watts vs price, but fall over on distortion levels. They are quite hard to listen to for any length of time, and definitely have a "character" that kind of makes things sound like they're coming over the telephone. I would go for a ported 8" woofer /1" horn top box, or (as I use) a ported box with an 8 or 6" coaxial driver, with a tweeter in the middle. And of course, you can stick as many extra tweeter boxes on top as you like...just absolutely melt your own ears clean off your head, buddy  For amps, there are two routes. You can buy modern class D (not the brand, the technology) car audio amps, as these are lightweight and efficient enough to make sense in a 12v rig. Older car amps are too heavy and inefficient to work well. Alpine and Pioneer make some useful units. Or, you can put together an amp system from seperate power supply and preamp/ power amp boards from eg, Alibaba, Sure Electronics, Wondom...and many other Shenzen/Guangzhou companies. Search for "DC boost regulator", "Class D amplifier board" and "T-Amp" Either way, shoot for about "1000 watts" of total *claimed* power. This is likely to mean about 300 to 500 watts of real usable power, which is a good figure for decent output vs good playing time. In the world of 12v you soon find out how loud a watt can really be, and start to wonder why mains powered PA's need so many of them.... I am not sure which way really works out better - buying car amps is more expensive, but you save a lot of time compared to sourcing/assembling the separate bits of tech. On the other hand, you don't get to make as many choices about supply voltage (see below), crossover points, preamp design etc. For batteries, the classic starting point is a 110Ah lead-acid leisure battery like people use in caravans. These hold a lot of juice and are relatively cheap. Of course they weigh over 30kg and that is no fun to move around. So consider large lithium cell packs from eg Hobbyking. Prices have fallen a lot in recent months. However, remember that most car amps are designed to accept no more than about 15-16v at their power input, so you can't run them from anything more than a 4s (four in series) lithium pack - and even then, at full charge car amps might not be super happy. If you build your own amp, the allowable voltage range is normally a lot more, meaning you can use more different types of batteries. Hope you have fun with it! :)
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Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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Jay
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Joined: 28 January 2019 Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Posted: 29 January 2019 at 4:07pm |
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thanks a lot ,that's amazing advice , IRIE
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REIER
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Posted: 30 January 2019 at 12:54pm |
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For subwoofers, I advice you look in to builds like tham15, cubo15 and Jbell SS15. Those are well documented compact and efficient diy-builds with lots of build information on diyaudio.com and speakerplans forum.
There is this rule to be aware of: when it comes to compact size, efficiency, and low frequent bass output, you cannot have them all, you must pick two. In real life that means that if you want to have deep bass and power effiency, you must choose a larger build. So if you want it to be compact, efficient and deep, it is wise to settle for a compromise.
But if you don't have super pro experience with subwoofers, I can promise you that any of these ones that I suggested will blow your mind. You will crank the volume up just a tiny bit before you go "OMFG, I cannot believe it!". As mentioned earlier , you should opt for a car amplifier, maybe something like Bassface or Pioneer. I would recommend this solution. More components, more hassle. And also the more stuff you put in the chain, the more sources you have to troubleshoot for errors if you have a hum or other strange sounds. This sound system is going to be your baby, and you want to be able to trust it under every circumstance. It is stress inducing to know that you have some cheap alibaba component inside there that may burn any time, and the party is relying that you have another one if it bursts. When it comes to 12v batteries, the most important has been covered. Lead acid batteries are really heavy, and you should not drain them alot more than 50% if you want them to last several years. So for a size-weight-wattage ratio, they are really bad. I prefer LiFePo4 batteries. They are quite expensive now adays, but it is another ball game. You could drain them below 10% without a problem, they charge super quick, and they are 1/3 the weight and at least half the size of a lead acid. But again, they are quite expensive. I prefer them because we do forest raves far out in the wilderness, and it is not an option to carry 150kg of batteries in to the wild that gives you 50% capacity. Boominator is pure gold. I can promise you, no diy-build will give you the same satisfaction. But they dont play lot of bass below 90 hz, so they go nicely together with a couple of subwoofers. I use my boominators for picnics, quick beach trips and so on, they will not feel like a PROPER soundsystem. BUT if you build the boominator to blend in with subs, I would definetely separate the two sides and use them as satelites together with your subs. They will be a heavenly match. Specially if you build the semipro boominator with the pht407n tweeters, and a proper crossover, you will not regret it. I have personally built two of the tham15 and paired it with a couple of semipro boominator satelites for a rave we did last year, and it was just unbelieveable. If you want your soundsystem to sound REALLY good, I would definetely buy a miniDSP2x4. With this little device, yout can EQ your system, and really optimize the performance. it cost around 100euros, and it is just a marvellous thing. Good luck with your project! =D |
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Jay
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Posted: 30 January 2019 at 5:27pm |
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thanks very much fore the advice, I am slowly getting my head around things ,
Am I right in saying that a bigger driver dus not mean bigger power use , and that the sensitivity rating us what will tell me how much power to volume they will create ? Is the sensitivity of 95+ the sort of thing I'm looking for? This may be a very silly question but do I gave an amp fore the sub and then one fore the mid and top ( is that the right terminology?) or just one amp I was thinking of taking two of the Boominator tipe drivers and outing them in a simple box like this: one http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/pa/plans/2x12-angled-print.gif Would that be a good idea? They do not seem to be vented , good ? Bad? I don't understand that bit , Thanks agen fore all your help it amassed haw mutch time you guys give! Peace j |
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REIER
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Posted: 31 January 2019 at 3:34pm |
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"Am I right in saying that a bigger driver dus not mean bigger power use , and that the sensitivity rating us what will tell me how much power to volume they will create ? "
Yes, this is about right. Bigger driver does not mean larger power consumption for the same db. The sensitivity rating is what you are looking for, you are absolutely right. But this measurement is only related to the woofer it self. The same woofer will have different outputs in different cabinets types, and different cabinet sizes. If you want to have more detailed information about how many db a certain woofer will output in a certain cabinet in certain frequencies, have a look at frequency response measurements done for a specific cabinet with a specific woofer. Let's say you were building a tham15, you will find frequenzy response graphs for that cabinet with the recommended woofers going along with that build. If this is going to be a hobby of yours, then look in to a free software called hornresp. You can download it online. It is a tool that you use to determine how good a woofer fits inside a cabinet. You put in parameters of the woofer and parameters of the cabinet, and it gives a graph that tells you how loud, how deep and how flat response that combination gives in THEORY. If you are not up for the task yet of understanding these contexts relate to each other, just buy the recommended woofers for the build you decide for, and it will amazing anyway. "Is the sensitivity of 95+ the sort of thing I'm looking for?" Yes, with limited amplifying power, and limited power, you must choose a build that gives you the most db. 95+ is a good indication. Remember, +6db is twice the sound pressure level. +10 db is twice the percieved loudness of the speaker. "This may be a very silly question but do I gave an amp fore the sub and then one fore the mid and top ( is that the right terminology?) or just one amp " The question is not how many amps, but more how many amplifying channels you need. One amp can have several channels, like the pioneer gmd9604. It has four channels. You could run four small tops with it, or bridge two of the four channels and run 2 tops and one sub on bridged channel, or bridge four channels into two channels and run two bigger tops. But to be practical, I would definetely use two amplifiers. One for the subs and one for the tops. Car amplifiers now adays usually have a internal crossover, so you just set the channels on the amp to amplify top spectrum for tops, and on the other amplifier, you set it to amplify bottom spectrum for subs. But you could use a minidsp to split the signal before it reaches the amplifiers. And you could also EQ the signal with minidsp to make it sound really pro. If you are going to use two tops and want stereo, then amplifier should have at least two channels. or four bridgeable channels. But mono will also do fine for outdoor setups. Then you could get away with one channel for tops. Frequencies below 90hz is omnidirectional, so there is no need to go stereo with subs. I would recommend a monoamp for subwoofers. Remember that when you connect two speakers in the same channel, impedance of the speaker halves. So if you have two 8ohm subs and connect them to a mono channel, the amplifier sees 4ohm. This is fine. But if woofers are 4 ohm, then the speaker will se 2 ohm. Then you need to make sure that your amplifiers is 1ohm stable. It will be stated in specifications. "was thinking of taking two of the Boominator tipe drivers and outing them in a simple box like this: one http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/pa/plans/2x12-angled-print.gif Would that be a good idea? " No, this is not a good idea. The boominator construction is a complex puzzle. Everything in the boominator has to be just the way it is for it to work properly. Dont get fooled by the simplicity of the build. The maker of this speakerbuild really put in some effort to optimze and maximize every aspect of the sound, and if you change one tiny bit, you need to recalculate everything. You could separate the two speakercompartments, but this speaker needs to play both ways, or else it will not be a good listening experience. If you would like to tweak the boominator, it will be a better idea to settle for some other speakertops for your system. They do not seem to be vented , good ? Bad? I don't understand that bit Yes they are vented. On the sides, there are handle holes. They double as vents, it is really clever ;) The vent plays bass. Or frequencies below a certain hz. Think of it like whistle. The whistle has a volume chamber, and a really precice hole for the air to pass through. If the relation between the chamber and the hole is correct, you get a resonance, or whistling sound. It is the same thing with a bass reflex port, or vent. If the relation between the volume in the speakerbox and the vent is correct, there will be a resonance. But in speakers it plays lower frequenzies. Air is being pushed back and forth by the woofer. It is a bass playing whistle ;) |
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studio45
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Joined: 16 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3864 |
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Posted: 31 January 2019 at 3:46pm |
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edit: Looks like REIER beat me to it, er, what he said ^^^  You might end up using one or more amps depending on what you buy. Quite a lot of car amps have four channels rather than just 2. So you can run four different frequency bands from one amp if you want. Or you can combine two of the channels into a single more powerful output (known as bridge mode) and use it to power a larger bass speaker. Or you can buy multiple stereo amps. There are even 6 and 8 channel car amps out there, but they are more expensive and potentially not built for efficiency as we need. You will need something to divide the frequencies up. Again some car amps have this functionality built in, or you can use an external crossover unit. This would have the advantage of allowing you to wire in kill switches for each frequency band like on a reggae preamp ;) plus give you more control over crossover points - not many car amps are actually set up to allow you to run a 3 or 4-way system, even if they have 4 channels; they mostly assume you just want to split off the bass to send to a subwoofer(s), and your other speakers will simply play everything else. The miniDSP 2x4 can do this, it has 2 inputs and 4 outputs, so you could run a mono 4-way system, or a stereo 2-way. But, there are other DSP units available that have up to 8 outputs, allowing for stereo 3 or 4-way. Plus, the miniDSP does *not* do limiting, ie driver protection, whereas other similarly priced DSP's will do that. Search FreeDSP and Sure Electronics. Edited by studio45 - 31 January 2019 at 3:48pm |
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Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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Jay
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Posted: 31 January 2019 at 10:25pm |
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amazing , one more set of questions and then I will shut up and start building !
So I am going to go fore the cubo 15 , one or two of them .? Mono or stereo ? Can you recommend a mid top cabenet pleas , thanks
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mini-mad
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Posted: 31 January 2019 at 11:31pm |
Mono. ..and build the THAM15 not the CUBO15.
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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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concept-10
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Posted: 01 February 2019 at 7:28am |
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What mini said
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Jay
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Posted: 01 February 2019 at 7:35am |
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thanks 👍😀
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Jay wrote: