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So.... Glastonbury.... The big question ????
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njw View Drop Down
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Points: 2574 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by doller doller wrote:

Why didn't he just load the boxes with real pd drivers?  His speakers are copies arn't they? Worth 2 million quid he could afford a few. Who would have known? Maybe the system would have survived too.
  

 A decent limiter and a system tech with half a clue what they're doing would probably have been more effective than loading the boxes with better quality drivers IMO. Smile
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 12:32pm
His 'British' brand was paid for by an EU grant can't knock the hustle.

The £2m figure was the turnover from sales of earplugs by someone else, l think.
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Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

His 'British' brand was paid for by an EU grant can't knock the hustle.

The £2m figure was the turnover from sales of earplugs by someone else, l think.


Earplugs?
dont tell us B.S is a "70s Trousers" offshoot???? LOL




ps: good to see u back
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 10:56am
Originally posted by BigSoundNorthWest BigSoundNorthWest wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

His 'British' brand was paid for by an EU grant can't knock the hustle.

The £2m figure was the turnover from sales of earplugs by someone else, l think.



Earplugs?
dont tell us B.S is a "70s Trousers" offshoot???? LOL




ps: good to see u back


I don’t believe there’s any affiliation, yet. I for one will await the team up with baited breath. We can only dream what wonders may be produced.




And thanks, it’s not a permanent thing though. The more things change…
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Points: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demospete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 11:15am
So what do people think of his claim of ‘British Paper cones’ he won’t name the company they are sourced from saying “we don’t give away all our trade secrets” I smell complete BS as for example if you were sourcing drivers drone Fane (just an example) you would use that as a use.
Also is it just the paper cones? Do they wind the voice coil on in China then tinker with the cabinet (pre moulded cabinet) to appease the new T&S parameters.
I guess he sees it as a white lie and quite cute...
Maybe in the uk but when you ship an 18” driver with no other marks apart from a BS sticker with a huge Union Flag 🇬🇧 on it, then to me that is false representation. If you’re gonna insist on using the union flag #bishopsound then you should make clear these component pieces have been ‘ordered in uk’ engineered and manufactured in CHINA.
I think he’s made a big mistake putting himself as the marketing centric for the company. Has he ever been told he has a magnanimous personality? He comes accross like a used car salesman up a dirt track on a Scottish Hill who’s been dry from whiskey for four and a half days. Miserable corporate entity 
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Points: 10919 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 12:48pm
I believe something qualifies as “made in the UK” if some assembly is done here. It could pretty much be as little as fixing some bolts in, but I doubt it’s really monitored or checked even if a complaint is raised.

The obvious choice for UK paper cones would be Kurt Müller, and they’d have a KM stamp on the cone if so. Easy to check. However I’m sure there are plenty of other local paper manufacturers that would happily step up and clone something to the best of their abilities if they were presented with a decent volume.

It’s more likely however that whatever Chinese factory is making the drivers just has - or says they have - a UK supplier for cones and that’s good enough for him. And clearly, his clients.

One thing that has become abundantly clear to me over the past decade or so is that sound is very much a ‘health factor’ for the majority of people. As in, they’ll gripe when it’s bad, but so long as it’s passable the job is done. And frankly, there’s not many truly awful sounding things out there these days - especially by the age old metric of “can you hear the vocals and a bit of thump”.

Going the extra ten miles to take reproduced sound from merely the good side of average to exceptional is the exception rather than the norm. Sadly that applies to a lot of professional outfits, ‘engineers’ and hobbyists too. It often saddens me how many otherwise smart and keen folk seem to shore up their positions or stand fast when it comes to doing research - or having frank, respectful and open-minded discussions - on why they’re hearing what their lugholes and brain are telling them is happening.

There are plenty of exceptions of course! I’m frequently blown away by some of the stuff I stumble across, but it’s very much diamonds in a lot of rough…

The very fact that the love of audio and innovations have transcended borders and cultures historically still isn’t enough to leapfrog the xenophobic and nationalist rhetoric that’s back on the rise worldwide.

If that’s how it seems to be at the level of people who are apparently the enthusiasts, it’s no wonder that the majority of people will gladly swallow a story that fits their preconceptions even if the product in their hands at the end of it doesn’t match that. Humans are funny old things, and we don’t like to be wrong or challenged. Cognitive biases and dissonance abound!

Edited by toastyghost - 18 May 2021 at 12:50pm
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woody2 View Drop Down
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Points: 1726 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

I believe something qualifies as “made in the UK” if some assembly is done here. It could pretty much be as little as fixing some bolts in, but I doubt it’s really monitored or checked even if a complaint is raised.



Trade Descriptions Act 1968 S.36

36 Country of origin.

(1)For the purposes of this Act goods shall be deemed to have been manufactured or produced in the country in which they last underwent a treatment or process resulting in a substantial change.

(2)The Board of Trade may by order specify—

(a)in relation to any description of goods, what treatment or process is to be regarded for the purposes of this section as resulting or not resulting in a substantial change;

(b)in relation to any description of goods different parts of which were manufactured or produced in different countries, or of goods assembled in a country different from that in which their parts were manufactured or produced, in which of those countries the goods are to be regarded for the purposes of this Act as having been manufactured or produced.
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Points: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demospete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 5:51pm
No, he has a ND contract where he can pick out different specs on equipment so then he can say ‘designed/engineered in the h uk’
Just like Italian and German companies who buy the same white label equipment say designed in Germany or Italy etc.
My friends company wanted to put ‘assembled in the uk’ on some paint brushes so to do that they had to have them delivered (seperate brush separate handle) and sit there putting them together and then packing them to have ‘assembled in the uk’ stated.
Andrew Bishop adds confusion by using the union flag in some wushu washy homage to the past regarding‘British tonality of speakers and sound equipment) this is lost in people though, they see the flag and think ‘made in uk’ I have seen people say oh this is made in the uk and he does not correct them. I’m not sure why you copied me those trading terms and where they are from but non are relevant.
YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BS SIC CODE
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7816 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by woody2 woody2 wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

I believe something qualifies as “made in the UK” if some assembly is done here. It could pretty much be as little as fixing some bolts in, but I doubt it’s really monitored or checked even if a complaint is raised.



Trade Descriptions Act 1968 S.36

36 Country of origin.

(1)For the purposes of this Act goods shall be deemed to have been manufactured or produced in the country in which they last underwent a treatment or process resulting in a substantial change.

(2)The Board of Trade may by order specify—

(a)in relation to any description of goods, what treatment or process is to be regarded for the purposes of this section as resulting or not resulting in a substantial change;

(b)in relation to any description of goods different parts of which were manufactured or produced in different countries, or of goods assembled in a country different from that in which their parts were manufactured or produced, in which of those countries the goods are to be regarded for the purposes of this Act as having been manufactured or produced.

Here a minimum of 60% of the manufacturing cost must be in components with EU origin and local labor. I believe certain percentage of the goods value is a norm pretty much everywhere. I would dare someone to ask for Certificate of origin from them and see if they can provide it.
Marjan Milosevic
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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demospete View Drop Down
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Points: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demospete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 6:05pm
Well it appears you do not have to put origin of manufacturer on the product, I.e you don’t have to say where it is made.
But when you do not state that but stick a union flag on (denotating it has the British sound)

https://bishop.com/products/18-subwoofer-driver-cast-alloy-1000w-rms-with-faston-terminals-woofer-bdp18-4-8-ohm - https://bishopsound.com/products/18-subwoofer-driver-cast-alloy-1000w-rms-with-faston-terminals-woofer-bdp18-4-8-ohm
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7816 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by demospete demospete wrote:

Well it appears you do not have to put origin of manufacturer on the product, I.e you don’t have to say where it is made.
But when you do not state that but stick a union flag on (denotating it has the British sound)


Certificate of origin is issued by the Chamber of commerce here and each time i need to issue one they send people at my shop to check the entire manufacturing process where i need to present invoices for each item used up to the last bolt.
On export if i export to EU i need to provide EUR1 document that proves that the goods are made in my country. The process is very similar. I need to present a nomenclature for each loudspeaker box stating all the "ingrediencies" and provide invoices for all the materials used. But when selling to the domestic market, as in your case with Bishop and UK, there is a big room for play.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Points: 1726 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2021 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by demospete demospete wrote:

No, he has a ND contract where he can pick out different specs on equipment so then he can say ‘designed/engineered in the h uk’
Just like Italian and German companies who buy the same white label equipment say designed in Germany or Italy etc.
My friends company wanted to put ‘assembled in the uk’ on some paint brushes so to do that they had to have them delivered (seperate brush separate handle) and sit there putting them together and then packing them to have ‘assembled in the uk’ stated.
Andrew Bishop adds confusion by using the union flag in some wushu washy homage to the past regarding‘British tonality of speakers and sound equipment) this is lost in people though, they see the flag and think ‘made in uk’ I have seen people say oh this is made in the uk and he does not correct them. I’m not sure why you copied me those trading terms and where they are from but non are relevant.
YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BS SIC CODE


I didn't quote you...... and it clearly states the law in the uk......"Trade Descriptions Act 1968 S.36"
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