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Best mid-tops for jamaican oldies?

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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Dub Specialist Sound Dub Specialist Sound wrote:

tbh my bad i think im getting mixed up with , op wanting to play oldies, not wanting an authentic old build/looking stack..


You can play Jamaican Oldies through a pair of powered speakers and it will sound fine. However, if he is looking for the Authentic Jamaican Sound (Historically known by Jamaican Sound Systems) certain principles need to apply to achieve that sound from decades ago. Those old top boxes/horns offer tonal characteristics that cannot be replicated with modern day boxes. This is why a lot of old top boxes are used today.  

Bear in mind Sound Systems in Jamaica are designed to play outdoors 100% of the time. In the UK, the States and, Canada such Sound Systems rarely play outdoors as the bulk of the events are held indoors.

Sound Systems in Jamaica do not have to deal with ceilings, corners and/or walls as, Sound Systems in the UK, the States and, Canada.



Best Regards,



Edited by Elliot Thompson - 14 November 2019 at 5:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by Dub Specialist Sound Dub Specialist Sound wrote:

tbh my bad i think im getting mixed up with , op wanting to play oldies, not wanting an authentic old build/looking stack..


I did mentioned this right at the beginning of the thread. No disrespect, but everyone has gone vintage in their recommendations. This implies that the last 30 odd years of technological advancements have been a waist of time. I understand where you are coming from but the  op's original question had nothing to do with vintage equipment. Which is why I wrote what I did. In short, get the best you can. What I heard last weekend at the sound check from the other guy was absolutely fantastic, playing old time tunes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Dub Specialist Sound Dub Specialist Sound wrote:

tbh my bad i think im getting mixed up with , op wanting to play oldies, not wanting an authentic old build/looking stack..


You can play Jamaican Oldies through a pair of powered speakers and it will sound fine. However, if he is looking for the Authentic Jamaican Sound (Historically known by Jamaican Sound Systems) certain principles need to apply to achieve that sound from decades ago. Those old top boxes/horns offer tonal characteristics that cannot be replicated with modern day boxes. This is why a lot of old top boxes are used today.  

Bear in mind Sound Systems in Jamaica are designed to play outdoors 100% of the time. In the UK, the States and, Canada such Sound Systems rarely play outdoors as the bulk of the events are held indoors.

Sound Systems in Jamaica do not have to deal with ceilings, corners and/or walls as, Sound Systems in the UK, the States and, Canada.



Best Regards,

This, to me, is bullshit. Get a decent pre amp, for sure and get an authentic sound. Much of the original 'sound' was trying to make the best of limited technology. A good speaker system should to some extent be transparent. Just saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Dub Specialist Sound Dub Specialist Sound wrote:

tbh my bad i think im getting mixed up with , op wanting to play oldies, not wanting an authentic old build/looking stack..


You can play Jamaican Oldies through a pair of powered speakers and it will sound fine. However, if he is looking for the Authentic Jamaican Sound (Historically known by Jamaican Sound Systems) certain principles need to apply to achieve that sound from decades ago. Those old top boxes/horns offer tonal characteristics that cannot be replicated with modern day boxes. This is why a lot of old top boxes are used today.  

Bear in mind Sound Systems in Jamaica are designed to play outdoors 100% of the time. In the UK, the States and, Canada such Sound Systems rarely play outdoors as the bulk of the events are held indoors.

Sound Systems in Jamaica do not have to deal with ceilings, corners and/or walls as, Sound Systems in the UK, the States and, Canada.



Best Regards,

This, to me, is bullshit. Get a decent pre amp, for sure and get an authentic sound. Much of the original 'sound' was trying to make the best of limited technology. A good speaker system should to some extent be transparent. Just saying.
Fire me down please


 Care to discuss why old loudspeakers hold more value than than processing? It is quite simple. It is because the loudspeaker is the final say of a equation. What lies in between loudspeaker and the source can be replaced with something else however, the loudspeaker (as with the source) dictates the tonal characteristics.

In case you might not know, Jamaican Sound Systems sound nothing like UK, the States and/or Canadian Sound Systems in terms of tops.

This is a good topic....

Lets talk about vintage Jamaican Sound System's Top Ends and see who really knows about vintage Jamaican tops that made a reputation in terms of tone in the 1980's - 1990's in the Dance hall scene.

Best Regards,









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 8:43pm
You are recommending someone buy into niche vintage equipment where the original question was about playing old vintage music. No mention whatsoever by the op about wanting vintage equipment. Indeed, the op has Rog Mogale super scoops, hardly a vintage scoop design. What you are suggesting is possibly doing the op a dis-service where the op has requested info from a forum frequented by so called experts.
Can't you see where I'm coming from?
Start a new thread extolling the the pros of certain equipment used in JA back in the day, and I'll read and contribute. Don't give me sideways snide comments about knowledge or not about how different systems sound around the world.
Stick to what the original question was. If you actually read it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by sowetosound sowetosound wrote:

I have two super scoop 18” and I would like to know what are the best options for mid-tops to play jamaican oldies.

Lev had it right, as usual
Fyi


Edited by valve head777 - 14 November 2019 at 8:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

You are recommending someone buy into niche vintage equipment where the original question was about playing old vintage music. No mention whatsoever by the op about wanting vintage equipment. Indeed, the op has Rog Mogale super scoops, hardly a vintage scoop design. What you are suggesting is possibly doing the op a dis-service where the op has requested info from a forum frequented by so called experts.
Can't you see where I'm coming from?
Start a new thread extolling the the pros of certain equipment used in JA back in the day, and I'll read and contribute. Don't give me sideways snide comments about knowledge or not about how different systems sound around the world.
Stick to what the original question was. If you actually read it.



Please get of your rant and pay attention to what sowetosound stated....

Originally posted by sowetosound sowetosound wrote:

I can't find the Multicell plans. By the way, what are the recommended drivers for multicell?


Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Or Jensen imperials with an old Vitavox/Altec multicell horn on top, have a look on google image search for "vintage reggae soundsystem",is some great black and white photos on there from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.



Originally posted by Elliot
Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by sowetosound sowetosound wrote:

I can't find the Multicell plans. By the way, what are the recommended drivers for multicell?



Multicells is a Metal horn. You would not build one. Here is the plan of the Altec 816. It was the benchmark for 90% of Jamaican Sound Systems in the 1970's - 1990's. You can retro fit it with a 12 inch driver since it was designed for a 15 inch driver.


Originally posted by sowetosound sowetosound wrote:

Thanks for plans. Some people made their own Multicellular horns.






Originally posted by Elliot
Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by sowetosound sowetosound wrote:

Thanks for plans. Some people made their own Multicellular horns.


 



Yes. Home Audio guys using wood which, sounds nothing like the original metal horn. If you are looking for an authentic Jamaican Sound playing old Jamaican music, you need a metal horn for your high frequencies. Preferably Altec. Altec Multicellar horns are expensive on the used market these days (Vitavox are possibly more due to their rarity). However, you can get some affordable Altec 811 horns or even Altec 511 horns that were used in Jamaican Sound Systems decades ago. And as Earplug says, Piezo Tweeters is a must.


Best Regards,


 

So who is really paying attention here?

Best Regards,


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2019 at 11:04pm
Jesus bloody Christ, Elliot, you don't always have to ensure that everyone thinks you're the smartest guy in the room.

@ sowetosound: Would you like those tunes to sound as good as possible, or would you like to make a complete vintage revival experience? Or - would you like to have a vintage aesthetic to go with your vintage tunes? If the answer to that 'is 'it would be nice to look authentic but I want the best sound possible' then you can likely build something that looks like it's a made from an old wardrobe, or whatever, but actually has the sonic qualities and internals of the best of modern technology to really recreate what the artist recorded. It might take more time, but you might also love the project more because of the end results and the journey it took you to get there.

A good 'rule of thumb' is to never take anything that anyone posts on a forum as gospel, it is merely an opinion with some reference to facts. You should collate a bunch of these, and then make your own judgement about what you want to do, or ask more questions until you feel comfortable to do so.

You are correct that many people made their own multicell horns out of wood, and they are happy. There is a beautiful looking roots system in Germany like this, called FreeMind Soundsystem. Maybe have a look at that, or dig up some photos of the kind of things you want to emulate, if looks are important, and then we can advise.

Edited by toastyghost - 14 November 2019 at 11:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sowetosound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2019 at 1:22am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Jesus bloody Christ, Elliot, you don't always have to ensure that everyone thinks you're the smartest guy in the room.

@ sowetosound: Would you like those tunes to sound as good as possible, or would you like to make a complete vintage revival experience? Or - would you like to have a vintage aesthetic to go with your vintage tunes? If the answer to that 'is 'it would be nice to look authentic but I want the best sound possible' then you can likely build something that looks like it's a made from an old wardrobe, or whatever, but actually has the sonic qualities and internals of the best of modern technology to really recreate what the artist recorded. It might take more time, but you might also love the project more because of the end results and the journey it took you to get there.

A good 'rule of thumb' is to never take anything that anyone posts on a forum as gospel, it is merely an opinion with some reference to facts. You should collate a bunch of these, and then make your own judgement about what you want to do, or ask more questions until you feel comfortable to do so.

You are correct that many people made their own multicell horns out of wood, and they are happy. There is a beautiful looking roots system in Germany like this, called FreeMind Soundsystem. Maybe have a look at that, or dig up some photos of the kind of things you want to emulate, if looks are important, and then we can advise.

you’re right. I'm looking for a system authentic and vintage, but at the same time my tunes sound good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2019 at 2:44am
OK, cool. So, the first thing would be to dig up some images of the vintage systems that you like the most, if you can, I'm sure some other people can contribute to help too.

This is the Free Mind Soundsystem I mentioned:


As you can see, it's still got a vintage feel, but also modern in design.

They built their own wooden multicell horns, and there is no reason you can't either. You just need to be aware that the insides of the horn must be coated with a resin or fibreglass, something more reflective than bare wood to avoid losing HF detail from the rough surface.

These guys have gone for what appears to be a bandpass horn kick, with some bracing detail to match their subs, but you could for example take a leaf out of Dub Specialist's book instead and have a nice reflex cabinet. I've seen some mighty fine photos of his vintage style system on here before, so I'm sure he'd be willing to share them again.

This here is from a house music club, in NYC, called Public Records. They have an Altec inspired mid section, with a multicell horn, and these were all built this year and loaded with Faital and other modern drivers. The sound is apparently stunning.


Edited by toastyghost - 15 November 2019 at 2:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2019 at 9:33am
I apologize for my robust response, crap few days, helped clear a space in storage of some of my equipment, only to find after 2x 150mile journeys that the space had another pile of crap dumped in there, costing me in excess of £100 and a massive waste of time.

However, had I known that the op was also after a vintage looking system, I wouldn't have replied as I have. Some of you are obviously telepathic, a skill I am lacking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fat_brstd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2019 at 10:28am
All depends how loud you really need it to be, a couple of really nice 10" drivers in a sealed box can keep up if you have reasonable amps & drivers in the scoops and will sound clean and solid. Stick a small compression driver on top and cross fairly high and it can sound like a far field studio monitor in JA. I find its the bass on JA Oldies that is hardest to get sounding good, the mids and tops are generally pretty good and clean especially with good og press records.
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