|
Lightweight vs heavy classics for subs |
Post Reply 
|
Page <12345> |
| Author | |
Earplug 
Old Croc 
Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: 27 December 2019 at 12:50pm |
|
Do you mean Carver? I´m pretty sure that they only built amps with transformer based PSU`s.  And (early) Class D´s were undoubtably terrible on bass - BUT things have definitely improved. Then you also have amps with SMPS coupled to 'normal' output stages. Or Lab Gruppen Class TD. All a lot better. |
|
|
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
|
|
 |
|
|
martinsson
Registered User 
Joined: 19 June 2007 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 325 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 2:27pm |
|
I dropped of a lab1600 (8kg smps from -99) and a lab1500 (30kg conventional ps 4,5kVA / 80.000uF from -94) at labgruppen for service before christmas and when I get them back I will do some subjective comparrions, they are equal in specified output power.
|
|
|
Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/
|
|
|
|
|
levyte357-
Old Croc
Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 5:10pm |
I used to think like this.. Then one night in Bristol, I heard Jah Loco Sound system playing set, with 4x PD1850 Scoops.. The sub was almost too round, and too warm, and I expected the PD1850s to drop dead, any minute.. Went over to see which transformer amp was sounding like this, expecting it to be Crest CA18. Saw Naphon HI-1400, and I said to them, OK, this is why your sub is round, and smashing the place up. He said "no, that is not playing, that one is..", Pointing to Sanway FP14K, in 2x cabs aside.. Have come to understand it was modded, but I tell you now, sounded to me like the amp was HPF'd around 38hz, and the stack of 4x Scoops, was missing nothing down there.. Copied Class TD, I believe. EDIT : That was approx 4-5x years ago, recently I have regularly heard PD1850 loaded Wattco Scoops, produce sub that dropped thru the floor boards, and bass notes that I can only describe as decaying naturally, without premature roll off. Amplifier - Powersoft X4. Edited by levyte357- - 27 December 2019 at 5:18pm |
|
|
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
|
|
|
|
Fred_dibna
Registered User
Joined: 24 September 2018 Status: Offline Points: 213 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 6:07pm |
|
The general word I keep hearing is that if you want newer switch mode amps that are as good on subs as the older transformer amps you need to buy switch mode amps that are in the region of about the £2,500-£3,000 new price range. Obviously you can get them used but i've heard a lot of people say amps that retail new for about £2,500-£3,000 price range when bought new is what you have to spend. Many people can't afford to spend £2,500-£3,000 on a new amp or about £1,000-£1,500 used if you can find one use in excellent condition so many people go for older transformer amps because even the Crown MA2402 can be had for as little as £450 used. The JBL MPX1200 go for as little as £300. The ones I want are four Peavey CS1200x but they'r every hard to find. If I could afford it ever someday i'd go for a Powersoft K10 but i'l never be able to afford it.
So for me like many it's old transformer amps that are much cheaper.
|
|
|
|
|
csg
Old Croc
Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 6:27pm |
|
One day you may be able to afford a used K10, original powersoft digam 7000’s go for not a lot now.
And most of the top of the line “transformer “ amps like the P3000 or crown 5000’s would have cost just as much in real terms as a top of the range SMPS amplifier today, if not more
|
|
|
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
|
|
|
|
|
JonB67
Young Croc 
Joined: 22 April 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1376 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 6:55pm |
|
Let's face it, this is exactly why it would be so beneficial to see the results of an amp shootout. Old iron vs modern smps. Cheaper ones vs more expensive ones. It'll put some hard numbers to what is mostly subjective opinion and conjecture.
|
|
|
|
|
Tonskulus
Registered User
Joined: 15 September 2017 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 425 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 7:10pm |
|
No doubt, modern high power (and expensive) SMPS amps can outperform old iron amplifiers.
Most cheap class-d amps are made around self oscillating amplifier topology, without proper feedback circuitry and having quite underrated SMPS. No wonder why some old (also expensive back then!) heavy iron amps easily outperforms these toy amps when it comes to continuous output power and cone control. Good thing is, there are (now) moderate priced iron amps still in production having really good performance / price. Similar amplifiers that were very expensive back in the 80's-90's.. the golden era of heavy weights. Nothing wrong with them, except the damn weight.. Edited by Tonskulus - 27 December 2019 at 7:12pm |
|
|
|
|
Fred_dibna
Registered User
Joined: 24 September 2018 Status: Offline Points: 213 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 7:40pm |
I've never heard a Powersoft Digam 7000 on subs so can't say if it'd be as good as the mighty Crown MA5002VZ or maybe bridged MA2402 if your subs are reasonably low power'ish.
|
|
|
|
|
csg
Old Croc
Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 December 2019 at 8:55pm |
|
You missed my point, I would not advise buying a digam 7000, just saying that amps like the K10 will become much more affordable, particularly as they are now a generation or two behind current models, just bide your time.
|
|
|
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
|
|
|
|
|
godathunder
Old Croc
Joined: 19 July 2004 Location: wicklow Status: Offline Points: 1834 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 December 2019 at 9:48pm |
I had a carver pm1400 for a while - that was class h I got it used to power my bass guitar rig. it sounded bloody awful - no guts at all I tried it on some 12/1 monitors and it sounded really thin for that too |
|
|
LOUDER THAN LOUD
|
|
|
|
|
serioussound
Registered User
Joined: 01 December 2013 Status: Offline Points: 443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 February 2020 at 4:00pm |
|
Anyone know about QSC PL 4.0 for subs?
Like 1 dual 18” a side?
|
|
|
|
|
Explicit 2
Registered User
Joined: 02 May 2016 Location: Staffordshire Status: Offline Points: 91 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 February 2020 at 5:06pm |
|
'Whether you believe you can or you can't your right' Im here to learn
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page <12345> |
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
VECTORDJ wrote: