| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
JonB67 
Young Croc
Joined: 22 April 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Posted: 20 February 2020 at 10:30pm |
 Jo bg wrote:
Noyzmunky wrote:
easier to buy a 4 channel digital amp nowadays. Run your tops and all your bass of a 2U case. |
Note that the nx4 6000 has no hipass for the sub so with your solution the Op Will burn his subs at the first dance. And that without talking about alignment that would be impossible... Better to look for a dsp or crossover, or amps with full dsp. |
Nx4 6000d has dsp.
Personally id run two amps both with dsp for redundancy and the ability to use amps more suited to each role, but even a nx1000d amd nx6000d come in at a budget friendly amount.
|
 |
Tucker
Registered User
Joined: 18 February 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 94
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 February 2020 at 6:06am |
Elliot Thompson wrote:
Tucker wrote:
I was planning on just making 1 double 18 sub, and hoping to spend around 600. And eventually build an HD215 for 400-500. Just looking at drivers and the price of wood those seem like reasonable numbers, maybe a little shy though
|
Are we talking Pounds or US Dollars here?
There is no way you can make any of those boxes with the proper speakers to offer optimum results, using quality wood that will be road worthy for that price point in US Dollars. That type of budget would be a challenge 40 years ago.
The cheapskate mentality when building loudspeaker enclosures is not the motto on Speakerplans. So if you are going to build enclosures, build them to last throughout your sound man venture or buy some used reflex boxes and call it a day.
Why are you so hooked on the HD 215 when your full-range cabinets offer 15 inch drivers? You can easily reach to 60 Hertz with those boxes. If you want folded horns build a pair of PD 1850's or PD 186 that will make a lot of noise for Kick and offer a lower bass response than the HD 15. The HD 15 is a fill-in box.
If you live in the States, buy some used Cerwin Vega folded horns.
Best Regards,
|
Im in the States. I can buy 2 Eminence or Fane 18 inch for about 290 each, then it's just another 40 or 50 bucks in wood? That doesn't put me too far above 600 USD for a dual 18inch reflex. Unless there's something I didn't take into account.
I'm hooked on the HD215s because I've heard many people on this forum say they're great for techno and that's almost exclusively the music that will be played. Also I understand the Carvins already have 15s that match the HD215 but eventually I have to get my own setup because I don't actually own the Carvins. I'm just trying to think long term where I don't need to use the Carvins and can play to larger crowds than the Carvins can handle. The goal is a 3 way system.
Thanks for all your input
|
|
disco dust in my veins
|
|
Jo bg
Young Croc
Joined: 08 March 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 552
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 February 2020 at 7:40am |
JonB67 wrote:
Jo bg wrote:
Noyzmunky wrote:
easier to buy a 4 channel digital amp nowadays. Run your tops and all your bass of a 2U case. |
Note that the nx4 6000 has no hipass for the sub so with your solution the Op Will burn his subs at the first dance. And that without talking about alignment that would be impossible... Better to look for a dsp or crossover, or amps with full dsp. |
Nx4 6000d has dsp.
Personally id run two amps both with dsp for redundancy and the ability to use amps more suited to each role, but even a nx1000d amd nx6000d come in at a budget friendly amount. |
The 2 Channel nx 6000d has DSP, but there Is no four Channel NX ampwith DSP as far as i know, just the nx4 6000 without dsp and Noyz was suggesting twice to use that amp with internal crossovers, which are NO DSP and have NO Hi Pass for the sub. If Behringer does a 4 Channel DSP amp please provide a link.Thanks
|
|
JonB67
Young Croc
Joined: 22 April 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 February 2020 at 11:08am |
Looks like you're right. I was sure id seen one but google says no.
Id still run two amps for preference anyway. Gives redundancy if you lose an amp you still have sound, and the subs have more power and headroom.
|
|
Jo bg
Young Croc
Joined: 08 March 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 552
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 February 2020 at 3:12pm |
|
Fullly agree with that! Redundancy and sub load split between Power supllies.
|
|
Elliot Thompson
Old Croc
Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5176
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 February 2020 at 5:16pm |
Tucker wrote:
Elliot Thompson wrote:
Tucker wrote:
I was planning on just making 1 double 18 sub, and hoping to spend around 600. And eventually build an HD215 for 400-500. Just looking at drivers and the price of wood those seem like reasonable numbers, maybe a little shy though
|
Are we talking Pounds or US Dollars here?
There is no way you can make any of those boxes with the proper speakers to offer optimum results, using quality wood that will be road worthy for that price point in US Dollars. That type of budget would be a challenge 40 years ago.
The cheapskate mentality when building loudspeaker enclosures is not the motto on Speakerplans. So if you are going to build enclosures, build them to last throughout your sound man venture or buy some used reflex boxes and call it a day.
Why are you so hooked on the HD 215 when your full-range cabinets offer 15 inch drivers? You can easily reach to 60 Hertz with those boxes. If you want folded horns build a pair of PD 1850's or PD 186 that will make a lot of noise for Kick and offer a lower bass response than the HD 15. The HD 15 is a fill-in box.
If you live in the States, buy some used Cerwin Vega folded horns.
Best Regards,
|
Im in the States. I can buy 2 Eminence or Fane 18 inch for about 290 each, then it's just another 40 or 50 bucks in wood? That doesn't put me too far above 600 USD for a dual 18inch reflex. Unless there's something I didn't take into account.
I'm hooked on the HD215s because I've heard many people on this forum say they're great for techno and that's almost exclusively the music that will be played. Also I understand the Carvins already have 15s that match the HD215 but eventually I have to get my own setup because I don't actually own the Carvins. I'm just trying to think long term where I don't need to use the Carvins and can play to larger crowds than the Carvins can handle. The goal is a 3 way system.
Thanks for all your input |
You need to pay to get the wood cut. You need to buy screws. You need to buy glue. You need to buy wire. You need to buy paint (that's going to cost you right there) to apply to the box to protect it from transit. Not to mention things like Neutrik connections, castors and so on..
All you need is Four Cerwin Vega L 36s. All that other stuff you are pursuing is not needed. You can buy the Cerwin Vegas used on Craiglist or Ebay in your area and, will have more Kick and Punch than the route you are trying to go.
The Carvins are a three way box offering an internal crossover. So although you would run the Carvin & Cerwin Vega as a two-way setup, technically, it is a four-way setup.
You are too new in the business and influenced by hype. How can you be so determined to build something you have never heard with your own two ears and not take into consideration Cerwin Vega that has a history behind the L 36 that will give you exactly what you are looking for in terms of bass?
Its your money. You can do whatever you want with it for no one has anything to gain or lose on which direction you choose. Many of us are just trying to prevent the mistakes that happen to us to be bestowed upon you when we got started in the business.
Best Regards,
Edited by Elliot Thompson - 21 February 2020 at 5:28pm
|
|
Elliot Thompson
|
|
Tucker
Registered User
Joined: 18 February 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 94
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 February 2020 at 8:30pm |
Elliot Thompson wrote:
Tucker wrote:
Elliot Thompson wrote:
Tucker wrote:
I was planning on just making 1 double 18 sub, and hoping to spend around 600. And eventually build an HD215 for 400-500. Just looking at drivers and the price of wood those seem like reasonable numbers, maybe a little shy though
|
Are we talking Pounds or US Dollars here?
There is no way you can make any of those boxes with the proper speakers to offer optimum results, using quality wood that will be road worthy for that price point in US Dollars. That type of budget would be a challenge 40 years ago.
The cheapskate mentality when building loudspeaker enclosures is not the motto on Speakerplans. So if you are going to build enclosures, build them to last throughout your sound man venture or buy some used reflex boxes and call it a day.
Why are you so hooked on the HD 215 when your full-range cabinets offer 15 inch drivers? You can easily reach to 60 Hertz with those boxes. If you want folded horns build a pair of PD 1850's or PD 186 that will make a lot of noise for Kick and offer a lower bass response than the HD 15. The HD 15 is a fill-in box.
If you live in the States, buy some used Cerwin Vega folded horns.
Best Regards,
|
Im in the States. I can buy 2 Eminence or Fane 18 inch for about 290 each, then it's just another 40 or 50 bucks in wood? That doesn't put me too far above 600 USD for a dual 18inch reflex. Unless there's something I didn't take into account.
I'm hooked on the HD215s because I've heard many people on this forum say they're great for techno and that's almost exclusively the music that will be played. Also I understand the Carvins already have 15s that match the HD215 but eventually I have to get my own setup because I don't actually own the Carvins. I'm just trying to think long term where I don't need to use the Carvins and can play to larger crowds than the Carvins can handle. The goal is a 3 way system.
Thanks for all your input |
You need to pay to get the wood cut. You need to buy screws. You need to buy glue. You need to buy wire. You need to buy paint (that's going to cost you right there) to apply to the box to protect it from transit. Not to mention things like Neutrik connections, castors and so on..
All you need is Four Cerwin Vega L 36s. All that other stuff you are pursuing is not needed. You can buy the Cerwin Vegas used on Craiglist or Ebay in your area and, will have more Kick and Punch than the route you are trying to go.
The Carvins are a three way box offering an internal crossover. So although you would run the Carvin & Cerwin Vega as a two-way setup, technically, it is a four-way setup.
You are too new in the business and influenced by hype. How can you be so determined to build something you have never heard with your own two ears and not take into consideration Cerwin Vega that has a history behind the L 36 that will give you exactly what you are looking for in terms of bass?
Its your money. You can do whatever you want with it for no one has anything to gain or lose on which direction you choose. Many of us are just trying to prevent the mistakes that happen to us to be bestowed upon you when we got started in the business.
Best Regards,
|
I've been looking for something like the Cerwin Vega's for a while, and if I find a good deal on some I would probably buy them. And I know I'm new to all of this but I'm pretty handy, I also have a full machine shop and access to a CNC cutter so building a box or a folded horn is not a problem, I've engineered much more complex things before. I also just enjoy building shit and learning in the process, and if I buy a plug and play system I won't learn anything.
|
|
disco dust in my veins
|
|
Elliot Thompson
Old Croc
Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5176
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 February 2020 at 10:04pm |
Tucker wrote:
Elliot Thompson wrote:
Tucker wrote:
Elliot Thompson wrote:
Tucker wrote:
I was planning on just making 1 double 18 sub, and hoping to spend around 600. And eventually build an HD215 for 400-500. Just looking at drivers and the price of wood those seem like reasonable numbers, maybe a little shy though
|
Are we talking Pounds or US Dollars here?
There is no way you can make any of those boxes with the proper speakers to offer optimum results, using quality wood that will be road worthy for that price point in US Dollars. That type of budget would be a challenge 40 years ago.
The cheapskate mentality when building loudspeaker enclosures is not the motto on Speakerplans. So if you are going to build enclosures, build them to last throughout your sound man venture or buy some used reflex boxes and call it a day.
Why are you so hooked on the HD 215 when your full-range cabinets offer 15 inch drivers? You can easily reach to 60 Hertz with those boxes. If you want folded horns build a pair of PD 1850's or PD 186 that will make a lot of noise for Kick and offer a lower bass response than the HD 15. The HD 15 is a fill-in box.
If you live in the States, buy some used Cerwin Vega folded horns.
Best Regards,
|
Im in the States. I can buy 2 Eminence or Fane 18 inch for about 290 each, then it's just another 40 or 50 bucks in wood? That doesn't put me too far above 600 USD for a dual 18inch reflex. Unless there's something I didn't take into account.
I'm hooked on the HD215s because I've heard many people on this forum say they're great for techno and that's almost exclusively the music that will be played. Also I understand the Carvins already have 15s that match the HD215 but eventually I have to get my own setup because I don't actually own the Carvins. I'm just trying to think long term where I don't need to use the Carvins and can play to larger crowds than the Carvins can handle. The goal is a 3 way system.
Thanks for all your input |
You need to pay to get the wood cut. You need to buy screws. You need to buy glue. You need to buy wire. You need to buy paint (that's going to cost you right there) to apply to the box to protect it from transit. Not to mention things like Neutrik connections, castors and so on..
All you need is Four Cerwin Vega L 36s. All that other stuff you are pursuing is not needed. You can buy the Cerwin Vegas used on Craiglist or Ebay in your area and, will have more Kick and Punch than the route you are trying to go.
The Carvins are a three way box offering an internal crossover. So although you would run the Carvin & Cerwin Vega as a two-way setup, technically, it is a four-way setup.
You are too new in the business and influenced by hype. How can you be so determined to build something you have never heard with your own two ears and not take into consideration Cerwin Vega that has a history behind the L 36 that will give you exactly what you are looking for in terms of bass?
Its your money. You can do whatever you want with it for no one has anything to gain or lose on which direction you choose. Many of us are just trying to prevent the mistakes that happen to us to be bestowed upon you when we got started in the business.
Best Regards,
|
I've been looking for something like the Cerwin Vega's for a while, and if I find a good deal on some I would probably buy them. And I know I'm new to all of this but I'm pretty handy, I also have a full machine shop and access to a CNC cutter so building a box or a folded horn is not a problem, I've engineered much more complex things before. I also just enjoy building shit and learning in the process, and if I buy a plug and play system I won't learn anything.
|
So build four Cerwin
Vega L 36 Folded Horns. Build four PD 1850 Folded Horns, Build four
PD 186 Folded Horns. Any of those three designs will offer you the
Kick & the Punch. Techno Bass is too simple for you to complicate
things by having two boxes trying to achieve the performance level of
one box that is designed to give you that kind of performance level.
Best Regards,
|
|
Elliot Thompson
|
|
Tucker
Registered User
Joined: 18 February 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 94
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 February 2020 at 6:17pm |
efinque wrote:
A 2x18" isn't a one-man haul, let alone 2 or 4 of them. Then you need amplifiers and a rack, and that is going to weight a lot unless you can afford some high-end 1RU digital amps. If I understood correctly you already have the tops.
Another thing is you need something to transport them with. Most likely a van, you'll only break your back with a variant like I did.
Many people (including me) quickly think a speaker isn't much else than a few sheets of wood and a driver which is technically correct but do their calculations based on that, then there are profiles, corners, handles, grilles, connectors, dishes, wheels etc which all add up to the price. Then there's wiring and cabling, power distribution, all those small things. And amplifiers, also you'd need to crossover the system at around 120-200Hz.
OT : I have hunch many people are tricked into the business with cheap driver prices and they're downright shocked when the time comes to buy amplifiers and processing. I read somewhere neodynium (used in drivers) prices are subject to change (or already did) because of some mining industry stuff in god knows where.
With a 2x18" you could easily do shows for 200 people indoors. Maybe with a single 15" alone, even a 12" would do unless it's a band in which case you need a FOH mixer too (luckily many electric instrument players use amps on stage so they compensate for a slight lack of rig)
Outdoors (like in your case) it's another thing because there are no walls to reinforce the sound so it's justified to use a larger sub than necessary. Also keep in mind building two separate 18" enclosures could take twice as much wood and space than a sole 2x18".
EDIT : another thing is that, in my experience, people will ultimately judge the system (if they happen to pay attention to it) by it's looks.. sad but true. You could have the most advanced, highly tuned bass bin in the world doing all the magic but unfortunately many would only notice the Carvin tops.
EDIT 2 : isn't Burning Man in the desert or something? You need a 3-phase generator too unless the staff provides you electricity
|
We have trucks, trailers, and many hands to help transport this stuff. And yes Burning Man is in the desert, and they don't provide you with anything out there except bathrooms. Also we have plenty of generators to run a system.
|
|
disco dust in my veins
|
|
munkey
Registered User
Joined: 17 August 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 300
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 February 2020 at 6:38pm |
efinque wrote:
A 2x18" isn't a one-man haul, let alone 2 or 4 of them. Then you need amplifiers and a rack, and that is going to weight a lot unless you can afford some high-end 1RU digital amps. If I understood correctly you already have the tops.
Another thing is you need something to transport them with. Most likely a van, you'll only break your back with a variant like I did.
Many people (including me) quickly think a speaker isn't much else than a few sheets of wood and a driver which is technically correct but do their calculations based on that, then there are profiles, corners, handles, grilles, connectors, dishes, wheels etc which all add up to the price. Then there's wiring and cabling, power distribution, all those small things. And amplifiers, also you'd need to crossover the system at around 120-200Hz.
OT : I have hunch many people are tricked into the business with cheap driver prices and they're downright shocked when the time comes to buy amplifiers and processing. I read somewhere neodynium (used in drivers) prices are subject to change (or already did) because of some mining industry stuff in god knows where.
With a 2x18" you could easily do shows for 200 people indoors. Maybe with a single 15" alone, even a 12" would do unless it's a band in which case you need a FOH mixer too (luckily many electric instrument players use amps on stage so they compensate for a slight lack of rig)
Outdoors (like in your case) it's another thing because there are no walls to reinforce the sound so it's justified to use a larger sub than necessary. Also keep in mind building two separate 18" enclosures could take twice as much wood and space than a sole 2x18".
EDIT : another thing is that, in my experience, people will ultimately judge the system (if they happen to pay attention to it) by it's looks.. sad but true. You could have the most advanced, highly tuned bass bin in the world doing all the magic but unfortunately many would only notice the Carvin tops.
EDIT 2 : isn't Burning Man in the desert or something? You need a 3-phase generator too unless the staff provides you electricity
|
|
 the midtops!
|
|
Noyzmunky
Young Croc
Joined: 10 June 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1260
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 February 2020 at 7:59pm |
|
yeah, junk the dh15's and go for a pair of 186 or 1850's and you're done. also future proofed as you can just build more.
Much better than messing about with more designs than you need...
techno is it? stack those folded horns lad.. stack em high.
|
|
my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.
|
|
Tucker
Registered User
Joined: 18 February 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 94
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 February 2020 at 9:43pm |
Noyzmunky wrote:
yeah, junk the dh15's and go for a pair of 186 or 1850's and you're done. also future proofed as you can just build more.
Much better than messing about with more designs than you need...
techno is it? stack those folded horns lad.. stack em high. |
Thanks for your input, I like this idea. If I go this route I will probably make the 186 because I cannot pay 450 usd each for the PD1850. What are your thoughts on the quality of Eminence drivers? Specifically the Omega Pro 18 that's recommended in the 186 plans.
|
|
disco dust in my veins
|
|
